* Greg KH:
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all companies
free Linux driver development. No longer do you have to suffer through
all of the different examples in the Linux Device Driver Kit, or pick
through the thousands of example drivers in the Linux kernel source
On 1/30/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all companies
free Linux driver development. No longer do you have to suffer through
all of the different examples in the Linux Device Driver Kit, or pick
All that is needed is some kind of specification that describes how your
device works, or the email address of an engineer that is willing to
answer questions every once in a while. A few sample devices might be
good to have so that debugging doesn't have to be done by email, but if
On 1/30/07, Roland Dreier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All that is needed is some kind of specification that describes how your
device works, or the email address of an engineer that is willing to
answer questions every once in a while. A few sample devices might be
good to have so that
Roland Dreier wrote:
Just look at the in-tree drivers: there are tons of them that don't
work on big-endian platforms, or have 64-bit problems, or have no SMP
support. And that doesn't even count drivers that are so bitrotted
they won't even build any more.
The vast majority of these were
Jeff Garzik wrote:
Great offer to folks for drivers, but it sends a mixed message. OSDL
should offer to host a page somewhere to coordinate all of this.
:-)
Jeff
Roland Dreier wrote:
Just look at the in-tree drivers: there are tons of them that don't
work on big-endian platforms, or
The vast majority of these were submitted ages ago. Standards for
acceptance and maintenance have risen since the days of ISA drivers
and floppy tape drives.
What are our standards for maintenance? How can we tell in advance if
something is going to be maintained (cf.
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:45:50AM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
All that is needed is some kind of specification that describes how your
device works, or the email address of an engineer that is willing to
answer questions every once in a while. A few sample devices might be
good to
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:30:23PM +0400, Manu Abraham wrote:
Sounds very nice indeed. Just happened to do a driver in a similar
status, where the vendor did not want to make the specs and other
stuff open, but was in a position to support an OSS driver for the
STB0899 demodulator driver
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 02:45:57PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
* Greg KH:
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all companies
free Linux driver development. No longer do you have to suffer through
all of the different examples in the Linux Device Driver Kit, or pick
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:52:48AM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
This driver will work with all[1] of the different
CPU types supported by Linux, the largest number of CPU types supported
by any operating system ever before in the history of computing.
(How many do we support? How many does
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:33:04AM +0100, Bauke Jan Douma wrote:
Greg KH wrote on 30-01-07 02:29:
An offer they can't refuse.
This offer is in affect for all different types of devices, from USB
toys to PCI video devices to high-speed networking cards. If you build
it, we can get Linux
I'm all for openness of device programming specs, but I think it's a
bit disingenous to suggest that all a company has to do to get a
driver written and supported is throw some documentation over the
wall. And it's crazy to suggest that the driver will work on every
platform and be
On Jan 30 2007 11:14, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:52:48AM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
This driver will work with all[1] of the different
CPU types supported by Linux, the largest number of CPU types supported
by any operating system ever before in the history of computing.
Manu Abraham wrote:
On 1/30/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all companies
free Linux driver development. No longer do you have to suffer through
all of the different examples in the Linux Device
Roland Dreier wrote:
What are our standards for maintenance? How can we tell in advance if
something is going to be maintained (cf. drivers/net/chelsio)?
I don't think you can seriously argue that just posting documentation
is going to guarantee that a device is going to get a high-quality
* Greg KH:
This reminds of the the utterly broken dl2k network driver (which has
got interrupt handling problems and doesn't properly synchronize with
DMA transfers, IIRC). Hardware specs are available, and I guess I
could even provide a hardware sample, maybe even two. (If the
community
Roland Dreier wrote:
Well, we can disagree about the majority of drivers. My feeling is
that most of the drivers that are really used by lots of people get
support beyond just a dump of docs -- in fact often vendors are
maintaining them, eg e1000, tg3, cciss, etc., to pick some running on
the
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:31:01PM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Jan 30 2007 11:14, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:52:48AM +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
This driver will work with all[1] of the different
CPU types supported by Linux, the largest number of CPU types supported
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:40:10PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
* Greg KH:
This reminds of the the utterly broken dl2k network driver (which has
got interrupt handling problems and doesn't properly synchronize with
DMA transfers, IIRC). Hardware specs are available, and I guess I
could
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 10:08:54PM +0300, Dmitri Vorobiev wrote:
Greg KH ??:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Just curious, it is a coincidence or a thoughtful action that this offer
(which is undoubtedly very attractive and will definitely help the Linux
user base grow
El Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:10:20 -0800, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
Any specific examples? I have a long list of people who wish to write
new drivers but just don't know which hardware is not yet supported.
It'd be interesting to join forces with the BSD guys in this field, they surely
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:29:58AM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
I'm all for openness of device programming specs, but I think it's a
bit disingenous to suggest that all a company has to do to get a
driver written and supported is throw some documentation over the
wall. And it's
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 02:33:01PM -0500, Bill Davidsen wrote:
Greg, did this go to the announce group as well? It should, some
people read that even if they can't cope with LKML volume.
What announce group?
I noticed it hit /., so it is now being spread to a group wider than
lkml.
thanks,
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:52:12PM +0100, Diego Calleja wrote:
El Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:10:20 -0800, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi?:
Any specific examples? I have a long list of people who wish to write
new drivers but just don't know which hardware is not yet supported.
It'd be
On 1/30/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all companies
free Linux driver development. No longer do you have to suffer through
all of the different examples in the Linux Device Driver Kit, or pick
El Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:31:01 +0100 (MET), Jan Engelhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
escribió:
Don't they claim 50+? Already browsing
ftp://ftp.de.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-3.1 gives more than 2
screenfuls [à 25].
I don't know exactly how many architectures does netbsd run, but Linux seems
to
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 08:15:11PM +, Andrew Lyon wrote:
How about a kernel driver for the m-cubed tbalancer bigNG ?
http://www.t-balancer.com/english/bng.htm (see support section of site)
Complete documentation is available, and devs are friendly (see
forums), there is already a
On Jan 30 2007 21:23, Diego Calleja wrote:
Sure, Linux doesn't support vax and the like, but it does support lots of
architectures that matter. In http://netbsd.org/Ports/#ports-by-cpu
there's a more Linux-like view of the architectures supported. Although
Netbsd people will argue that porting a
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:33:04 +0100, Bauke Jan Douma said:
Greg KH wrote on 30-01-07 02:29:
An offer they can't refuse.
This offer is in affect for all different types of devices, from USB
toys to PCI video devices to high-speed networking cards. If you build
it, we can get Linux drivers
Well, we can disagree about the majority of drivers. My feeling is
that most of the drivers that are really used by lots of people get
support beyond just a dump of docs -- in fact often vendors are
maintaining them, eg e1000, tg3, cciss, etc., to pick some running on
the boxes I
OK, but why isn't your army of volunteers fixing them?
They don't know about them, or they don't have the hardware to test?
Seriously, let the kernel-janitor's project know about any issues you
have and they will be glad to jump on it. Those people are just
chomping a the bit to do
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 01:38:06PM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
OK, but why isn't your army of volunteers fixing them?
Because nobody has hardware for them?
Greg said hardware wasn't necessary...
Someone has to have the hardware to test with. Hence my debug by
email comment.
Sure,
The Ralink wireless drivers are working to get their stuff upstream. I
think there is only some wireless infrastructure needed to complete
before it gets into mainline, but you will have to ask them about this.
There was a wireless-mini-summit a week or so ago, so those developers
Roland Dreier wrote:
Well, we can disagree about the majority of drivers. My feeling is
that most of the drivers that are really used by lots of people get
support beyond just a dump of docs -- in fact often vendors are
maintaining them, eg e1000, tg3, cciss, etc., to pick some
Roland Dreier wrote:
Sure, Ralink drivers will get upstream eventually. But by the time
the drivers get merged, Ralink will have stopped making the chips that
it supports (or so I read, http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/wireless/)!
I don't think that taking a year or two to merge a driver
There was a wireless-mini-summit a week or so ago, so those developers
all know what is going on in that space right now. They are facing a
number of different regulatory issues, combined with lack of
specifications from some vendors. I don't think that the developers who
actually
OK, fair enough, I forgot about tg3. But on the other hand, you
wrote
it without docs, actually _in spite of_ Broadcom, right?
Which I think makes my point that documentation is neither necessary
nor sufficient for a good Linux driver. Documentation helps, but if
no one
You mean the bcm43xx wireless driver that's been upstream for months?
Sorry, yes. For some reason I thought it was blocked on the dscape
merge but obviously I was wrong. So a reverse-engineered driver got
upstream WAY FASTER than a driver where the vendor published specs and
GPLed source.
On 1/30/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:30:23PM +0400, Manu Abraham wrote:
Sounds very nice indeed. Just happened to do a driver in a similar
status, where the vendor did not want to make the specs and other
stuff open, but was in a position to support an OSS
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:12:31PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
You mean the bcm43xx wireless driver that's been upstream for months?
And seems to do 802.11b only and screw up the eeprom settings so that
the windows driver gets confused next time you boot windows. Lovely
driver. If the bios on
On 1/31/07, Dave Airlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm sort of with Roland on this, the timelines aren't usually worth it
for a company to bother especially with complicated hardware, the time
taken to do a community graphics driver for any GPU where specs have
been available approaches infinity,
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 01:46:38PM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
I disagree -- Linux today gets drivers not just from volunteers
writing drivers from specs, but also from vendors writing drivers and
volunteers writing drivers via reverse engineering. And many of those
drivers don't work on
Like Jeff said, many of these are quite old.
OK, but why isn't your army of volunteers fixing them?
One of the problems if lack of hardware. It's very hard to fix a
prehistoric serial driver if you don't have an ISA bus box with the
needed slot let alone the card.
And why bother - its
Roland Dreier wrote:
I disagree -- Linux today gets drivers not just from volunteers
writing drivers from specs, but also from vendors writing drivers and
volunteers writing drivers via reverse engineering. And many of those
drivers don't work on every platform and aren't supported by
Trent Waddington wrote:
All this sounds like a lack of organisation on the side of the
community to me. Greg saying that he and others are twiddling their
thumbs because they don't know what hardware needs drivers says that
too. Where is the list of hardware-without-drivers? Until recently
Matthieu CASTET wrote:
Jeff Garzik jeff at garzik.org writes:
And I seem to recall there's more SATA chipset documentation than Jeff
Garzik has time to implement support for.
I seriously doubt you can come up with even a single concrete example here.
Regardless, libata has 55+ drivers and
Which of these actively maintained and supported drivers work on only
one platform[1], and are excluded from enterprise distros? Can we
truly count them as many, as you repeatedly claim?
Why do we restrict this to actively maintained and supported drivers
(I think abandonware drivers are
On another side, some PATA drivers are incomplete or missing.
When we switch to PATA and drop old ide stack, what will happen ?
Will all driver be ported and full-feature, or some will be obsoleted ?
At the moment unless anyone gets upset I expect to obsolete the CMD640
but nothing else PCI.
Roland Dreier wrote:
I thought you wrote tg3 without docs and without help from Broadcom?
We had docs and Broadcom's GPL'd driver.
To repeat, my point is that the drivers used most by users of
enterprise distros will get written with or without vendor docs or
help. Drivers for hardware
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 02:50:49PM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
Which of these actively maintained and supported drivers work on only
one platform[1], and are excluded from enterprise distros? Can we
truly count them as many, as you repeatedly claim?
Why do we restrict this to actively
Roland Dreier wrote:
Which of these actively maintained and supported drivers work on only
one platform[1], and are excluded from enterprise distros? Can we
truly count them as many, as you repeatedly claim?
Why do we restrict this to actively maintained and supported drivers
(I think
You were complaining about drivers that work on only one
platform. Thus, I asked for list of said drivers, drivers that break
Greg's pledge.
When did I ever say one platform? If I did, it was an error -- I've
tried to consistently talk about not every platform.
I'm betting they are
Jeff Garzik wrote:
I guess Nvidia ADMA is pretty much
done now.
Yep. Without docs, even. And its supported by enterprise distros.
Well, the docs I was using was a half-finished, broken version of the
driver released by NVidia which had to be significantly revised, and the
public ADMA
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 02:19:24PM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
You mean the bcm43xx wireless driver that's been upstream for months?
Sorry, yes. For some reason I thought it was blocked on the dscape
merge but obviously I was wrong. So a reverse-engineered driver got
upstream WAY FASTER
On 1/31/07, Roland Dreier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To me, it's clear that historically the community hasn't delivered on
this. So I don't like promising something that we haven't been able
to follow through on in the past. If a vendor takes Greg's offer, and
then the community, for whatever
Roland Dreier wrote:
To me, it's clear that historically the community hasn't delivered on
How is that clear? As noted in the specific examples I provided, that
is how a large number of popular drivers and subsystems have been developed.
this. So I don't like promising something that we
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 07:16:39PM -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
The only difference between Greg's offer and offers made by other
developers to vendors is that his was public on LKML, and the subject
line concluded with an exclamation point.
Heh, never underestimate a well-placed ! :)
Also,
To me, it's clear that historically the community hasn't delivered on
How is that clear? As noted in the specific examples I provided, that
is how a large number of popular drivers and subsystems have been
developed.
Yes, I agree that it often works. What I'm arguing is that it
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:10:20AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:45:50AM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
...
And there are plenty of documented devices that no one cares enough
about to submit a driver for.
Any specific examples? I have a long list of people who wish to
On 1/31/07, Adrian Bunk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Would someone from your long list of people e.g. be willing to maintain
drivers/block/floppy.c ?
I have a floppy drive! Will have to go buy some disks though. What's
wrong with it?
Trent
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To unsubscribe from this list: send the line
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:13:40AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:10:20AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:45:50AM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
...
And there are plenty of documented devices that no one cares enough
about to submit a driver for.
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:07:57PM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
To me, it's clear that historically the community hasn't delivered on
How is that clear? As noted in the specific examples I provided, that
is how a large number of popular drivers and subsystems have been
developed.
On 1/31/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:13:40AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:10:20AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:45:50AM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
...
And there are plenty of documented devices that no one
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 11:19:15AM +1000, Trent Waddington wrote:
On 1/31/07, Adrian Bunk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Would someone from your long list of people e.g. be willing to maintain
drivers/block/floppy.c ?
I have a floppy drive! Will have to go buy some disks though. What's
wrong
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:24:28PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:13:40AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 11:10:20AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:45:50AM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote:
...
And there are plenty of documented devices
On 1/29/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all companies
free Linux driver development. ...
[snip]
[1] for the CPUs that support the bus types that your device works on.
Bravo! Now
Jeff Garzik wrote:
When we switch to PATA and drop old ide stack, what will happen ?
Will all driver be ported and full-feature, or some will be obsoleted ?
All drivers for which we can find users will be ported. If any features
disappear that's a bug.
Well, I have a long standing issue
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:27:29PM -0800, Michael K. Edwards wrote:
On 1/29/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all companies
free Linux driver development. ...
[snip]
[1] for the CPUs that support
On Jan 31, 2007, at 12:26 AM, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:27:29PM -0800, Michael K. Edwards wrote:
On 1/29/07, Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Yes, that's right, the Linux kernel community is offering all
companies
free Linux driver
Greg KH wrote on 30-01-07 02:29:
An offer they can't refuse.
This offer is in affect for all different types of devices, from USB
toys to PCI video devices to high-speed networking cards. If you build
it, we can get Linux drivers working for it.
s/affect/effect/
and maybe
On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 09:19:21PM -0500, Rik van Riel wrote:
> Greg KH wrote:
> >Free Linux Driver Development!
>
> Mind if I include this offer on http://kernelnewbies.org/UpstreamMerge ?
Please do, spread it around as much as you want.
thanks,
greg k-h
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To unsubscribe from
Greg KH wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Mind if I include this offer on http://kernelnewbies.org/UpstreamMerge ?
--
Politics is the struggle between those who want to make their country
the best in the world, and those who believe it already is. Each group
calls the other unpatriotic
Greg KH wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Mind if I include this offer on http://kernelnewbies.org/UpstreamMerge ?
--
Politics is the struggle between those who want to make their country
the best in the world, and those who believe it already is. Each group
calls the other unpatriotic
On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 09:19:21PM -0500, Rik van Riel wrote:
Greg KH wrote:
Free Linux Driver Development!
Mind if I include this offer on http://kernelnewbies.org/UpstreamMerge ?
Please do, spread it around as much as you want.
thanks,
greg k-h
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To unsubscribe from this list: send
Greg KH wrote on 30-01-07 02:29:
An offer they can't refuse.
This offer is in affect for all different types of devices, from USB
toys to PCI video devices to high-speed networking cards. If you build
it, we can get Linux drivers working for it.
s/affect/effect/
and maybe
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