Ville Herva wrote:
PS: Speaking of debugging failing initrd init scripts; it would be nice if
the kernel gave an error message on wrong initrd format rather than silently
failing... Yes, I forgot to make the cpio with the "-H newc" option :-/.
LOL, yea, that one got me too when I was first g
Neil Brown wrote:
On Saturday January 21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On the first try I neglected to read the directions and increased the
number of devices first (which worked) and then attempted to add the
physical device (which didn't work; at least not the way I intended).
Thanks, this is ex
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 02:54:28PM +0100, you [Heinz Mauelshagen] wrote:
> >
> > It is very tedious to have to debug a production system for a few hours in
> > order to get the rootfs mounted after each kernel update.
> >
> > The lvm error messages give almost no clue on the problem.
> >
> > W
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 02:54:20PM +0200, Ville Herva wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 10:44:18AM +0100, you [Heinz Mauelshagen] wrote:
> > >
> > > I use the regularly to play with md and other stuff...
> >
> > Me too but for production, I want to avoid the
> > additional stacking overhead and co
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 02:54:20PM +0200, Ville Herva wrote:
> If you really want the rest of us to convert from md to lvm, you should
> perhaps give some attention to thee brittle userland (scripts and and
> binaries).
If you do not like the LVM userland, you might want to try the EVMS userland,
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 10:44:18AM +0100, you [Heinz Mauelshagen] wrote:
> >
> > I use the regularly to play with md and other stuff...
>
> Me too but for production, I want to avoid the
> additional stacking overhead and complexity.
>
> > So I remain unconvinced that code duplication is worth i
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 11:45:22AM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2006-01-23T11:38:51, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Ok, I still didn't get that. I must be slow.
> > >
> > > Did you implement some DM-internal stacking now to avoid the above
> > > mentioned complexity
On 2006-01-23T11:38:51, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ok, I still didn't get that. I must be slow.
> >
> > Did you implement some DM-internal stacking now to avoid the above
> > mentioned complexity?
> >
> > Otherwise, even DM-on-DM is still stacked via the block device
> > a
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 11:26:01AM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2006-01-23T10:44:18, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Besides, stacking between dm devices so far (ie, if I look how kpartx
> > > does it, or LVM2 on top of MPIO etc, which works just fine) is via the
> >
On 2006-01-23T10:44:18, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Besides, stacking between dm devices so far (ie, if I look how kpartx
> > does it, or LVM2 on top of MPIO etc, which works just fine) is via the
> > block device layer anyway - and nothing stops you from putting md on top
> >
On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 01:13:11AM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2006-01-21T01:08:06, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > A dm-md wrapper would give you the same?
> > No, we'ld need to stack more complex to achieve mappings.
> > Think lvm2 and logical volume level raid5.
>
On Sunday January 22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello Neil ,
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Neil Brown wrote:
> > On Monday January 23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> NeilBrown wrote:
> >>> In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
> >>> against md in 2.6.latest which
Hello Neil ,
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, Neil Brown wrote:
On Monday January 23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
NeilBrown wrote:
In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
By this I mean adding 1 or mor
On Jan 22, 2006, at 20:25, Neil Brown wrote:
Changing the size of the devices is a separate operation that has
been supported for a while. For each device in turn, you fail it
and replace it with a larger device. (This means the array runs
degraded for a while, which isn't ideal and might be
On Monday January 23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> NeilBrown wrote:
> > In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
> > against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
> > By this I mean adding 1 or more drives to the array and then re-laying
> > out al
NeilBrown wrote:
In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
By this I mean adding 1 or more drives to the array and then re-laying
out all of the data.
I think my question is already answered by t
On Saturday January 21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> NeilBrown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
> > against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
> > By this I mean adding 1 or more drives to the array and the
NeilBrown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
> against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
> By this I mean adding 1 or more drives to the array and then re-laying
> out all of the data.
I've been looking for
Andre' Breiler wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Reuben Farrelly wrote:
>
>
>>On 20/01/2006 11:32 a.m., Neil Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The in-kernel autodetection in md is purely legacy support as far as I
>>>am concerned. md does volume detection in user space via 'mdadm'.
>>>
>>>
>>Hr
On 2006-01-21T01:08:06, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A dm-md wrapper would give you the same?
> No, we'ld need to stack more complex to achieve mappings.
> Think lvm2 and logical volume level raid5.
How would you not get that if you had a wrapper around md which made it
into a
On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 01:03:44AM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2006-01-21T01:01:42, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Why not provide a dm-md wrapper which could then
> > > load/interface to all md personalities?
> > As we want to enrich the mapping flexibility (ie, mu
On 2006-01-21T01:01:42, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Why not provide a dm-md wrapper which could then
> > load/interface to all md personalities?
> As we want to enrich the mapping flexibility (ie, multi-segment fine grained
> mappings) of dm by adding targets as we go, a certa
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 11:09:51PM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2006-01-20T19:38:40, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > However, rewriting the RAID personalities for DM is a thing only a fool
> > > would do without really good cause.
> >
> > Thanks Lars ;)
>
> Well, I
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 11:57:24PM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2006-01-20T19:36:21, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Then 'dmraid' (or a similar tool) can use 'dm' interfaces for some
> > > raid levels and 'md' interfaces for others.
> > Yes, that's possible but there
On 2006-01-20T19:36:21, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Then 'dmraid' (or a similar tool) can use 'dm' interfaces for some
> > raid levels and 'md' interfaces for others.
> Yes, that's possible but there's recommendations to have a native target
> for dm to do RAID5, so I started
On 2006-01-20T19:38:40, Heinz Mauelshagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > However, rewriting the RAID personalities for DM is a thing only a fool
> > would do without really good cause.
>
> Thanks Lars ;)
Well, I assume you have a really good cause then, don't you? ;-)
Sincerely,
Lars Marow
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 10:43:13AM +1100, Neil Brown wrote:
> On Thursday January 19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Neil Brown wrote:
> > >
> > > The in-kernel autodetection in md is purely legacy support as far as I
> > > am concerned. md does volume detection in user space via 'mdadm'.
> > >
>
On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 09:17:12PM -0500, Phillip Susi wrote:
> Neil Brown wrote:
>
> >Maybe the problem here is thinking of md and dm as different things.
> >Try just not thinking of them at all.
> >Think about it like this:
> > The linux kernel support lvm
> > The linux kernel support multipat
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 11:53:06AM +0100, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2006-01-19T21:17:12, Phillip Susi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I am under the impression that dm is simpler/cleaner than md. That
> > impression very well may be wrong, but if it is simpler, then that's a
> > good thin
On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 10:43:13AM +1100, Neil Brown wrote:
> dm and md are just two different interface styles to various bits of
> this. Neither is clearly better than the other, partly because
> different people have different tastes.
Here's why it's great to have both: they have different too
On Fri, Jan 20 2006, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> Oversimplifying to "dm is better than md" is just stupid.
Indeed. But "generally" md is faster and more efficient in the way it
handles ios, it doesn't do any splitting unless it has to.
--
Jens Axboe
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the lin
On 2006-01-19T21:17:12, Phillip Susi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am under the impression that dm is simpler/cleaner than md. That
> impression very well may be wrong, but if it is simpler, then that's a
> good thing.
That impression is wrong in that general form. Both have advantages and
d
Hi,
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Reuben Farrelly wrote:
> On 20/01/2006 11:32 a.m., Neil Brown wrote:
> >
> > The in-kernel autodetection in md is purely legacy support as far as I
> > am concerned. md does volume detection in user space via 'mdadm'.
>
> Hrm. How would I then start my md0 raid-1 arr
On 20/01/2006 11:32 a.m., Neil Brown wrote:
On Thursday January 19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm currently of the opinion that dm needs a raid5 and raid6 module
added, then the user land lvm tools fixed to use them, and then you
could use dm instead of md. The benefit being that dm pushes thin
Neil Brown wrote:
Maybe the problem here is thinking of md and dm as different things.
Try just not thinking of them at all.
Think about it like this:
The linux kernel support lvm
The linux kernel support multipath
The linux kernel support snapshots
The linux kernel support raid0
The lin
On Thursday January 19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Neil Brown wrote:
> >
> > The in-kernel autodetection in md is purely legacy support as far as I
> > am concerned. md does volume detection in user space via 'mdadm'.
> >
> > What other "things like" were you thinking of.
> >
>
> Oh, I suppose
Neil Brown wrote:
The in-kernel autodetection in md is purely legacy support as far as I
am concerned. md does volume detection in user space via 'mdadm'.
What other "things like" were you thinking of.
Oh, I suppose that's true. Well, another thing is your new mods to
support on the fly r
On Thursday January 19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm currently of the opinion that dm needs a raid5 and raid6 module
> added, then the user land lvm tools fixed to use them, and then you
> could use dm instead of md. The benefit being that dm pushes things
> like volume autodetection and mana
I'm currently of the opinion that dm needs a raid5 and raid6 module
added, then the user land lvm tools fixed to use them, and then you
could use dm instead of md. The benefit being that dm pushes things
like volume autodetection and management out of the kernel to user space
where it belongs.
On 2006-01-19T21:12:02, Jan Engelhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Use md for raid1, raid5, raid6 - anything with redundancy.
> > Use dm for multipath, crypto, linear, LVM, snapshot
> There are pairs of files that look like they would do the same thing:
>
> raid1.c <-> dm-raid1.c
> linear
>> >personally, I think this this useful functionality, but my personal
>> >preference is that this would be in DM/LVM2 rather than MD. but given
>> >Neil is the MD author/maintainer, I can see why he'd prefer to do it in
>> >MD. :)
>>
>> Why don't MD and DM merge some bits?
>
>Which bits?
>Why?
> Use either for raid0 (I don't think dm has particular advantages
> for md or md over dm).
I measured this a few months ago, and was surprised to find that
DM raid0 was very noticably slower than MD raid0. same machine,
same disks/controller/kernel/settings/stripe-size. I didn't try
to f
On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 11:22:31AM +1100, Neil Brown wrote:
...
> Compare this to an offline solution (raidreconfig) where all the code
> is only used occasionally. You could argue that the online version
> has more code safety than the offline version
Correct.
raidreconf, however, can conve
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, PFC wrote:
> This isn't really a md issue, but it's really annoying only when using
> RAID, because it makes a normal process (kicking a dead drive out) so slow
> it's almost non-functional. Is there a way to modify the timeout in question ?
yeah i posted to l-k about s
While we're at it, here's a little issue I had with RAID5 ; not really
the fault of md, but you might want to know...
I have a 5x250GB RAID5 array for home storage (digital photo, my lossless
ripped cds, etc). 1 IDE Drive ave 4 SATA Drives.
Now, turns out one of the SATA drives is a Maxt
On Tuesday January 17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Regarding box crash and process interruption, what is the remaining
> work to be done to save the process status efficiently, in order to
> resume resize process ?
design and implement ...
It's not particularly hard, but it is a separate task and I
On Tuesday January 17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2006, at 06:26, Michael Tokarev wrote:
> > This is about code complexity/bloat. It's already complex enouth.
> > I rely on the stability of the linux softraid subsystem, and want
> > it to be reliable. Adding more features, especiall
On Tuesday January 17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello Neil ,
>
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, NeilBrown wrote:
> > Greetings.
> >
> > In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
> > against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
> > By this I mean a
On Tuesday January 17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> As a sort of conclusion.
>
> There are several features that can be implemented in linux softraid
> code to make it real Raid, with data safety goal. One example is to
> be able to replace a "to-be-failed" drive (think SMART failure
> predictio
On Wednesday January 18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I agree with the original poster though, I'd really love to see Linux
> Raid take special action on sector read failures. It happens about 5-6
> times a year here that a disk gets kicked out of the array for a simple
> read failure. A rebu
On Wednesday January 18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, John Hendrikx wrote:
>
> > I agree with the original poster though, I'd really love to see Linux
> > Raid take special action on sector read failures. It happens about 5-6
> > times a year here that a disk gets kicked out of
On Wednesday January 18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >personally, I think this this useful functionality, but my personal
> >preference is that this would be in DM/LVM2 rather than MD. but given
> >Neil is the MD author/maintainer, I can see why he'd prefer to do it in
> >MD. :)
>
> Why don't M
>personally, I think this this useful functionality, but my personal
>preference is that this would be in DM/LVM2 rather than MD. but given
>Neil is the MD author/maintainer, I can see why he'd prefer to do it in
>MD. :)
Why don't MD and DM merge some bits?
Jan Engelhardt
--
-
To unsubscribe
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, John Hendrikx wrote:
> I agree with the original poster though, I'd really love to see Linux
> Raid take special action on sector read failures. It happens about 5-6
> times a year here that a disk gets kicked out of the array for a simple
> read failure. A rebuild of the ar
Sander wrote:
Michael Tokarev wrote (ao):
Most problematic case so far, which I described numerous times (like,
"why linux raid isn't Raid really, why it can be worse than plain
disk") is when, after single sector read failure, md kicks the whole
disk off the array, and when you start resync
On Mer, 2006-01-18 at 09:14 +0100, Sander wrote:
> If the (harddisk internal) remap succeeded, the OS doesn't see the bad
> sector at all I believe.
True for ATA, in the SCSI case you may be told about the remap having
occurred but its a "by the way" type message not an error proper.
> If you (th
linux-kernel snipped from cc list.
Sander wrote:
Michael Tokarev wrote (ao):
Most problematic case so far, which I described numerous times (like,
"why linux raid isn't Raid really, why it can be worse than plain
disk") is when, after single sector read failure, md kicks the whole
disk off the
Michael Tokarev wrote (ao):
> Most problematic case so far, which I described numerous times (like,
> "why linux raid isn't Raid really, why it can be worse than plain
> disk") is when, after single sector read failure, md kicks the whole
> disk off the array, and when you start resync (after repla
On Tuesday January 17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was
> also under the impression that md was going to be phased out and
> replaced by the device mapper.
I wonder where this sort of idea comes from
Obviously individual distr
Michael Tokarev wrote:
Compare this with my statement about "offline" "reshaper" above:
separate userspace (easier to write/debug compared with kernel
space) program which operates on an inactive array (no locking
needed, no need to worry about other I/O operations going to the
array at the time
> Neil, is this online resizing/reshaping really needed? I understand
> all those words means alot for marketing persons - zero downtime,
> online resizing etc, but it is much safer and easier to do that stuff
> 'offline', on an inactive array, like raidreconf does - safer, easier,
> faster, and o
Ross Vandegrift wrote:
On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:26:11PM +0300, Michael Tokarev wrote:
Raid code is already too fragile, i'm afraid "simple" I/O errors
(which is what we need raid for) may crash the system already, and
am waiting for the next whole system crash due to eg superblock
update erro
On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 02:26:11PM +0300, Michael Tokarev wrote:
> Raid code is already too fragile, i'm afraid "simple" I/O errors
> (which is what we need raid for) may crash the system already, and
> am waiting for the next whole system crash due to eg superblock
> update error or whatnot.
I th
Hello Neil ,
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, NeilBrown wrote:
Greetings.
In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
By this I mean adding 1 or more drives to the array and then re-laying
out all of the
On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 11:17:15AM +0300, Michael Tokarev wrote:
> Neil, is this online resizing/reshaping really needed? I understand
> all those words means alot for marketing persons - zero downtime,
> online resizing etc, but it is much safer and easier to do that stuff
> 'offline', on an inac
On Jan 17, 2006, at 06:26, Michael Tokarev wrote:
This is about code complexity/bloat. It's already complex enouth.
I rely on the stability of the linux softraid subsystem, and want
it to be reliable. Adding more features, especially non-trivial
ones, does not buy you bugfree raid subsystem
2006/1/17, Michael Tokarev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Sander wrote:
> This is about code complexity/bloat. It's already complex enouth.
> I rely on the stability of the linux softraid subsystem, and want
> it to be reliable. Adding more features, especially non-trivial
> ones, does not buy you bugfree
Sander wrote:
> Michael Tokarev wrote (ao):
[]
>>Neil, is this online resizing/reshaping really needed? I understand
>>all those words means alot for marketing persons - zero downtime,
>>online resizing etc, but it is much safer and easier to do that stuff
>>'offline', on an inactive array, like ra
Michael Tokarev wrote (ao):
> NeilBrown wrote:
> > Greetings.
> >
> > In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5
> > patches against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a
> > raid5 array. By this I mean adding 1 or more drives to the array and
> > then re-laying out a
NeilBrown wrote:
> Greetings.
>
> In line with the principle of "release early", following are 5 patches
> against md in 2.6.latest which implement reshaping of a raid5 array.
> By this I mean adding 1 or more drives to the array and then re-laying
> out all of the data.
Neil, is this online resi
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