Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-08 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! If that does the job we need to somehow inherit the power supply maximum from PCI when we allocate the root hub's device structure. I don't think there is such a convention that's generic for PCI. There might be ACPI-specific tables holding that value, but on embedded

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-06 Thread Oliver Neukum
Am Montag, 5. Juni 2006 16:32 schrieb David Brownell: On Saturday 03 June 2006 2:29 am, Oliver Neukum wrote: If that does the job we need to somehow inherit the power supply maximum from PCI when we allocate the root hub's device structure. I don't think there is such a convention

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-05 Thread David Brownell
On Saturday 03 June 2006 2:29 am, Oliver Neukum wrote: Am Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 22:01 schrieb Pavel Machek: Actually I have exactly opposite problem: my computer (spitz) can't supply full 500mA on its root hub, and linux tries to power up 'hungry' devices, anyway, leading to very weird

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-03 Thread Oliver Neukum
Am Dienstag, 30. Mai 2006 22:01 schrieb Pavel Machek: Hi! Starting with 2.6.16, some USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs. Alan Stern explains, The idea is that the kernel now keeps track of USB power budgets. When a bus-powered device requires more current than its

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-02 Thread Oliver Neukum
Am Freitag, 2. Juni 2006 02:03 schrieb David Liontooth: The MaxPower value does not appear to be a reliable index of this. My USB stick has a MaxPower value of 178mA and works flawlessly off an unpowered hub. Unfortunately devices don't seem to tell us what their It works flawlessly on all

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-02 Thread Alan Stern
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, David Liontooth wrote: What are the reasons not to do this? What happens if a USB stick is underpowered to one unit? Nothing? Slower transmission? Data loss? Flash memory destruction? If it's just speed, it's a price well worth paying. I do wish people would read the

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-02 Thread David Liontooth
Alan Stern wrote: Trying to draw too much current from an unpowered hub can and does cause data loss. I consider this issue closed; thank you for looking at it. The workaround is reasonably simple for the common situation of mounting a USB stick on a keyboard, perhaps with a mouse attached

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-01 Thread Alan Stern
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, linux-os (Dick Johnson) wrote: If they do, they are violating the spec. A device in the unconfigured (state 0) state must not draw more than 100mA. ... Hmmm, the USB-IF recommends 100 mA per port, not requires. See section 7.2.1 of the USB 2.0 specification (p. 177):

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-01 Thread linux-os (Dick Johnson)
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Oliver Neukum wrote: Am Donnerstag, 1. Juni 2006 17:09 schrieb linux-os (Dick Johnson): Many, most, perhaps all such devices don't take more power when they are enabled. Everything is already running and sucking up maximum current when you plug it in! If the motherboard

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-01 Thread Alan Stern
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Andrew Morton wrote: On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Alan Stern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As an alternative, we could allow an over-budget window of say 10%. That, plus we should provide a suitable i-know-what-im-doing user override, with the appropriate

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-01 Thread Mark Lord
Andrew Morton wrote: On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 02:18:20 -0700 .. This is generating a lot of grief and appears to be unnecessarily strict. Common USB sticks with a MaxPower value just above 100mA, for instance, typically work fine on unpowered hubs supplying 100mA. Is a more user-friendly

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-01 Thread Dagfinn Ilmari Mannsåker
Lennart Sorensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A scanner certainly uses more power with the scanner light on than with it off, and it starts out off until it is in use on most scanners. Of course I have never seen a usb powered scanner, so it doesn't seem to matter. Oh, they've been around for

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-01 Thread David Liontooth
Greg KH wrote: On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 10:58:43AM -0400, Alan Stern wrote: On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Andrew Morton wrote: On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 02:18:20 -0700 David Liontooth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Starting with 2.6.16, some USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs.

Re: [linux-usb-devel] USB devices fail unnecessarily on unpowered hubs

2006-06-01 Thread David Brownell
On Thursday 01 June 2006 5:03 pm, David Liontooth wrote: However, obeying the USB power rules is not an end in itself -- the relevant question is the minimum power the device requires to operate correctly and without damage. We don't know the minimum, or much care about it since the minimum