Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-16 Thread Matthew Wilcox
On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 10:41:14AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On 1/15/23 01:27, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > > More useful perhaps is to look at https://popcon.debian.org/ > > > > There are three machines reporting popcon results. It's dead. > > It's an opt-in mechanism that reports

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-16 Thread Ard Biesheuvel
On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 10:33, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > > Hi Ard! > > On 1/14/23 00:25, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: > > Thanks for reporting back. I (mis)read the debian ports page [3], > > which mentions Debian 7 as the highest Debian version that supports > > IA64, and so I assumed that

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-16 Thread John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 1/15/23 13:04, Sedat Dilek wrote: Exactly, Debian Popularity Contest was what I was looking for yesterday. Thanks Matthew. [1] says in Inst (204701): Name || Number || % == binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu || 101548 || 49.61%

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-16 Thread John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 1/15/23 01:27, Matthew Wilcox wrote: More useful perhaps is to look at https://popcon.debian.org/ There are three machines reporting popcon results. It's dead. It's an opt-in mechanism that reports 190,000 machines running Debian on x86_64. Do you think that there are only 190,000 servers

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-16 Thread John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 1/14/23 12:28, Sedat Dilek wrote: [ ... ] Best is to ask the Debian release-team or (if there exist) maintainers or responsibles for the IA64 port - which is an ***unofficial*** port. Here we go: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ia64/ Posting address: debian-i...@lists.debian.org Found

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-16 Thread John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
On 1/14/23 12:24, Sedat Dilek wrote: Example #1: binutils packages Checking available binutils package for Debian/unstable IA64 (version: 2.39.90.20230110-1): https://packages.debian.org/sid/binutils <--- Clearly states IA64 as "unofficial port" And?

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-16 Thread John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Hi Ard! On 1/14/23 00:25, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: Thanks for reporting back. I (mis)read the debian ports page [3], which mentions Debian 7 as the highest Debian version that supports IA64, and so I assumed that support had been dropped from Debian. This page talks about officially supported

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-15 Thread Sedat Dilek
On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 1:27 AM Matthew Wilcox wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 12:28:30PM +0100, Sedat Dilek wrote: > > [ ... ] > > > > > Best is to ask the Debian release-team or (if there exist) maintainers > > > or responsibles for the IA64 port - which is an ***unofficial*** port. > > > >

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-14 Thread Matthew Wilcox
On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 12:28:30PM +0100, Sedat Dilek wrote: > [ ... ] > > > Best is to ask the Debian release-team or (if there exist) maintainers > > or responsibles for the IA64 port - which is an ***unofficial*** port. > > > > Here we go: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-ia64/ > >

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-14 Thread Sedat Dilek
[ ... ] > Best is to ask the Debian release-team or (if there exist) maintainers > or responsibles for the IA64 port - which is an ***unofficial*** port. > Here we go: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ia64/ Posting address: debian-i...@lists.debian.org Found via

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-14 Thread Sedat Dilek
On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 12:43 AM Ard Biesheuvel wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 at 22:06, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > wrote: > > > > Hello Ard! > > > > > Can I take that as an ack on [0]? The EFI subsystem has evolved > > > substantially over the years, and there is really no way to do any > > >

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-13 Thread Ard Biesheuvel
On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 at 22:06, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > > Hello Ard! > > > Can I take that as an ack on [0]? The EFI subsystem has evolved > > substantially over the years, and there is really no way to do any > > IA64 testing beyond build testing, so from that perspective, dropping > >

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-13 Thread Mateusz Guzik
On 1/13/23, Linus Torvalds wrote: > Side note on your access() changes - if it turns out that you can > remove all the cred games, we should possibly then revert my old > commit d7852fbd0f04 ("access: avoid the RCU grace period for the > temporary subjective credentials") which avoided the

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-13 Thread John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Hello Ard! Can I take that as an ack on [0]? The EFI subsystem has evolved substantially over the years, and there is really no way to do any IA64 testing beyond build testing, so from that perspective, dropping it entirely would be welcomed. ia64 is regularly tested in Debian and Gentoo

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-13 Thread Jessica Clarke
On 13 Jan 2023, at 21:03, Luck, Tony wrote: > >> For what it's worth, Debian and Gentoo both have ia64 ports with active >> users (6.1 looks like it currently fails to build in Debian due to a >> minor packaging issue, but various versions of 6.0 were built and >> published, and one of those is

RE: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-13 Thread Luck, Tony
> For what it's worth, Debian and Gentoo both have ia64 ports with active > users (6.1 looks like it currently fails to build in Debian due to a > minor packaging issue, but various versions of 6.0 were built and > published, and one of those is running on the one ia64 Debian builder I >

Re: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-13 Thread Jessica Clarke
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 08:55:41AM +0100, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 at 01:31, Luck, Tony wrote: > > > > > Yeah, if it was ia64-only, it's a non-issue these days. It's dead and > > > in pure maintenance mode from a kernel perspective (if even that). > > > > There's not much

RE: ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-13 Thread Luck, Tony
>> Is it time yet for: >> >> $ git rm -r arch/ia64 >> > Can I take that as an ack on [0]? The EFI subsystem has evolved > substantially over the years, and there is really no way to do any > IA64 testing beyond build testing, so from that perspective, dropping > it entirely would be welcomed. > >

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-13 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 06:13:16PM -0600, Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 5:36 PM Mateusz Guzik wrote: > > > > To my understanding on said architecture failed cmpxchg still grants you > > exclusive access to the cacheline, making immediate retry preferable > > when trying to

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-13 Thread Will Deacon
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 02:12:50AM +0100, Mateusz Guzik wrote: > On 1/13/23, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > Side note on your access() changes - if it turns out that you can > > remove all the cred games, we should possibly then revert my old > > commit d7852fbd0f04 ("access: avoid the RCU grace

ia64 removal (was: Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax)

2023-01-12 Thread Ard Biesheuvel
On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 at 01:31, Luck, Tony wrote: > > > Yeah, if it was ia64-only, it's a non-issue these days. It's dead and > > in pure maintenance mode from a kernel perspective (if even that). > > There's not much "simultaneous" in the SMT on ia64. One thread in a > spin loop will hog the core

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-12 Thread Nicholas Piggin
On Fri Jan 13, 2023 at 2:15 PM AEST, Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 9:20 PM Nicholas Piggin wrote: > > > > Actually what we'd really want is an arch specific implementation of > > lockref. > > The problem is mainly that then you need to generate the asm versions > of all those

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-12 Thread Linus Torvalds
On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 9:20 PM Nicholas Piggin wrote: > > Actually what we'd really want is an arch specific implementation of > lockref. The problem is mainly that then you need to generate the asm versions of all those different CMPXCHG_LOOP() variants. They are all fairly simple, though,

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-12 Thread Linus Torvalds
On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 7:12 PM Mateusz Guzik wrote: > > I did not want to make such a change without redoing the ThunderX2 > benchmark, or at least something else arm64-y. I may be able to bench it > tomorrow on whatever arm-y stuff can be found on Amazon's EC2, assuming > no arm64 people show

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-12 Thread Nicholas Piggin
On Fri Jan 13, 2023 at 10:13 AM AEST, Linus Torvalds wrote: > [ Adding linux-arch, which is relevant but not very specific, and the > arm64 and powerpc maintainers that are the more specific cases for an > architecture where this might actually matter. > > See > > >

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-12 Thread Linus Torvalds
On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 6:31 PM Luck, Tony wrote: > > There's not much "simultaneous" in the SMT on ia64. Oh, I forgot about the whole SoEMT fiasco. Yeah, that might make ia64 act a bit differently here. But I don't think anybody cares any more, so I don't think that merits making this a

RE: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-12 Thread Luck, Tony
> Yeah, if it was ia64-only, it's a non-issue these days. It's dead and > in pure maintenance mode from a kernel perspective (if even that). There's not much "simultaneous" in the SMT on ia64. One thread in a spin loop will hog the core until the h/w switches to the other thread some number of

Re: lockref scalability on x86-64 vs cpu_relax

2023-01-12 Thread Linus Torvalds
[ Adding linux-arch, which is relevant but not very specific, and the arm64 and powerpc maintainers that are the more specific cases for an architecture where this might actually matter. See