The relatively low pitching of the mandora makes it an unlikely
candidate as the instrument Vivaldi conceived for RV93 and also for RV
82 and 85 (all composed in the 1720s?): not only because of the
resulting unidiomatic high tessitura of these 'leuto' pieces on the
mandora but also because there is no evidence of this instrument being
known in Italy around this time. Bear in mind that, although the large
continuo gallichon in A (or B) had been around in
Bohemia/Silesia/Bavaria from the 1680s, its smaller cousin the mandora
tuned a forth higher (also, confusingly, often called gallichon) was
only developed during the early 18th century with peak popularity in
these and some other (generally North German) States in the 1740s to
70s.
It is much more likely that the instrument required is the 18th
century Italian 'leuto' (sometimes but by no means always in its
arcileuto configuration) tuned, I and others have suggested, like the
old lute in a nominal G (but sometimes A); an E tuning has also been
proposed - tho' this is most unlikely in view of the string length of
these instruments. The general size of these instruments can be deduced
from contemporary iconography and there are good early/mid 18th century
Italian paintings showing lutes being played (often just 7 course
instruments - perhaps even old lutes?) suggesting string lengths close
to old G lutes (ie generally low/mid 60s cm). A number of these
instruments survive in modern collections and often in a pristine state
by makers such as Radice. As first suggested by Bob Spencer these
instruments would have played from staff notation (like Dalla Casa):
often using the octave transposing G2 clef but also, I suspect, also
using the normal bass clef for basso continuo.
Whether Vivaldi was concerned about these pieces being played on a
'baroque' ie Dm lute rather than an instrument in the old tuning I
think we will never truly know (since he didn't expect modern
organologists to delve into the question) but what can be said is the
the one lute work which he did indisputedly conceive for the Dm lute
(the double concerto with viola d'amore) RV 540 was first performed in
1740 and its fits well on the instrument - much more so than the
earlier 'leuto' works. We also know that the Dm lute made surprisingly
very little impression in 18th century Italy.
In short, if in doubt play these works on a 7 course lute (tuned in
nominal G or A) but use overwound on the lowest courses, unlike the
wholly gut strings of earlier generations. Also, I suspect, they
employed a significantly higher string tension than earlier generations
(the extant 18th century leuto seem more robust than earlier lutes; use
of nails to pluck) but then, of course, you risk damaging the
instrument.............. Alternatively, if you really want to hear what
contemporary audiences expected, get a special instrument made.
MH
--- On Mon, 3/1/11, Eugene C. Braig IV <brai...@osu.edu> wrote:
From: Eugene C. Braig IV <brai...@osu.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: RV93 materials?
To: "'Lute List'" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Monday, 3 January, 2011, 19:17
Because of the dedicatee in Bohemia, and the popularity of mandora
amongst
noble amateurs in that region of the world, Eric Liefeld (an occasional
to
this list) also speculated that they may have been performed on a
mandora in
D (see Liefeld, E. 2002/2003. Pondering Vivaldi's Leuto. LSA Quarterly
28(1):4-8.).
I also like that there was a 5- to 7-course Italianate equivalent to
mandora
in the 18th c. that shared a great many construction features with
mandolino, only being much bigger. As has been discussed here, naming
such
a thing "leuto" is not a difficult stretch given there was still an
"arcileuto" active in Italian places at the time.
Because of the solo parts' notation in violinist's short hand (single
line
on the treble clef), some have speculated that Vivaldi's leuto is a 5-
or
6-course mandolino. In spite of playing mandolino, I don't think
that's a
very satisfying sound for the works to designate "leuto" (especially
considering Vivaldi also designated other works "mandolino").
Personally, I really suspect Vivaldi didn't really care how the pieces
were
realized, especially since he wrote in simple melodic lines, leaving
performer to flesh them out with whatever instrument s/he had on hand.
A quick survey of a few efforts of which I'm aware:
Lindberg with the Drottingholm Baroque Ensemble, Galfetti with Il
Giardino
Armonico, and Paul O'Dette in recent performances I've seen all use
archlute.
Julian Bream and his consort recorded it with his incarnation of
renaissance
lute and I've seen Ronn MacFarlane give an excellent performance of RV
93 on
his.
Oddly, when Paul O'Dette recorded these years ago, he opted to play the
"leuto" works punteado on mandolino. Frankly, in spite of the
excellent
performance, the solo line sounds odd in to me in that octave.
Enjoy,
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
> Behalf Of Fabio Rizza
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 1:30 PM
> Cc: Lute List
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: RV93 materials?
>
> Il 03/01/2011 18:15, [3]...@heartistrymusic.com ha scritto:
> > I have heard many recordings of the guitar version with full
orchestra,
> and I havealso
> > performed the piece on guitar with full orchestra. Guitars and
lutes
> were not designed for
> > this. Even then I wanted a facsimile of the original, but was
unable to
> locate one.
> > Now that I am dabbling in the lute world I would like to
re-visit
> this piece.
> > Questions:
> > 1. Given the time period, would it be most historically accurate
to
> perform this on a baroque
> > lute in baroque tuning? Or could one get by with an 8 course
> renaissance instrument?
>
>
> Vivaldi uses the word "leuto" Vivaldi to indicate an instrument able
to
> realize the continuo. See, for example, his "Concerto per la
solennitA
> di san Lorenzo" RV 556. In my opinion (and in that of Rossella
Perrone,
> who wrote a detailed preface to my edition of Vivaldi's works for
lute
> and mandolin) that instrument was the archlute, i.e. the Italian
baroque
> lute. But I guess that Vivaldi wouldn't mind if someone played it on
the
> German baroque lute -- or even on the mandora, as Pietro Prosser
> suggested a few years ago.
>
> In her preface, Rossella Perrone writes:
> "In writing almost certainly for the A<<leutoA>> that he knew, that
is, the
> lute in use in Italy or the archlute, Vivaldi left the Bohemian
patron
> or his lutist the task of adapting the part. In any event, it is
> significant that the three compositions dedicated to Wrtby, together
> with the concerto RV 540, can be played on both types of instrument
and
> the keys of the works (C major in RV 82, G minor in RV 85, D major in
RV
> 93 and D minor in RV 540) are comfortable for the archlute and the
lute
> in D minor alike.
> "Moreover, in the three compositions dedicated to the Bohemian count,
> considering the fact that the pieces were certainly destined for a
> chamber group, the lute part, unlike the concerto RV 540, in which
the
> richer order of the score allows an explicit doubling of the roles of
> the instruments (as support for the basses in the ripieno and for the
> solista in the solos), is notated only in the treble clef without
> employing the bass clef. Nevertheless, since the lute part in score
is
> always in the middle, between the violin and the bass, with the
> exception of the Larghetto of RV 82 (highlighting, with such an
> arrangement,
> the derivation of the violin part from the A<<leutoA>> part), one can
put
> forward the hypothesis that the lutist of the period read from his
own
> line and the bass line at the same time, perhaps playing both the
> melodic line as well as the basses for harmonic support.
> "Ever since the publication of these compositions, as we were saying,
> the problem of the type of A<<leutoA>> employed by Vivaldi has come
up. The
> confusion arose because of Vivaldi's use of the treble clef. However,
> from the autograph RV 540, where the notes in the treble clef are
> written an octave higher and the basses on the true notes, we learn
that
> the parts of the three compositions dedicated to Wrtby (all in G
clef),
> were to be played by the archlute an octave lower and not on a small
> lute with
> a register that could go as high as D5".
>
>
> > 2. Would Vivaldi have written standard notation that a lutenist
would
> then have entabulated
> > according to the instrument in their possession at the time?
>
>
> I guess so. There are some examples of this "modus operandi" in the
lute
> literature of that time. There is an interesting article written by
> Pietro Prosser (in Italian, sorry):
>
[4]http://riviste.paviauniversitypress.it/index.php/phi/article/view/05
-02-
> INT04/44
>
>
>
> > 3. For correct volume and tonal balance, what would be the most
> appropriate (and
> > historically correct) number of violins, etc.? String trio? Two
per
> desk?...
>
>
> The Concerto RV 93 is scored for two violins, lute and "basso".
>
>
> Best regards,
> Fabio
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@heartistrymusic.com
4. http://riviste.paviauniversitypress.it/index.php/phi/article/view/05-02-
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
