Dear Michael,
first of all: I personally am playing Nylgut although I enjoy the sound of
gut. Having made bad (and expensive) experiences with gut I stay with the
compromise. Someday I'll try another brand than the one I tried then.
Regarding the indication of Bach's g-minor Suite for Schouster (opposed to
Falckenhagen's arrangement of the same suite): I think Bach wrote with a
certain IDEA in mind which doesn't necessarily give hints about the
APPLICATION on a specific instrument. (I think he even asks for
tones/basses on a organ which didn't exist on the organ he had access to at
that time).
You are of course right: the lutes were changed to fit the fashion of the
day. This is on the other hand a problem. We often cannot know for certain
how the original construction has been and I guess we would only find rests
of the last strings used on the instrument. Especially wire should tend to
leave more significant traces than organic material like gut.
Best wishes
Thomas
"Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 31.01.2005 17:02:20
An: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Kopie:
Thema: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: RE: Gutsy stories
Thomas,
I think the German Baroque lute under went enormous change within a
relatively short amount of time, a mere 30 to 40 years. Clearly, Weiss was
concerned with improving the bass register, with the swan neck, the more
refined Jauch/ Brunner designs were beginning to replace even the swan
necks, towards the end of Weiss's lifetime.
Contemporary makers were building lutes with thicker tops, different
bracing, thicker ribs etc., seeking more sustain, as opposed to conversion
lutes, with ren bracing and thickness.
Some possible evidence of the use of wound metal bass strings might be
the observation of the string hole diameters, but also Bach's G
minor lute suite were the bass notation clearly suggests stopping the
basses, something that would be totally unnecessary on an instrument with
gut
One possible solution would be to do a sort of forensic analysis of the
scrapings left in the bridge holes from historical lutes I'm sure if they
used wound metal strings some evidence would surface.
To say that these lutes were ''designed for gut strings is accurate on
one hand, but doesn't limit the possibilities on the other, or could simply
just not be the case.
A contemporary example we can relate to is Segovia's Hauser made in 1937
originally conceived for and " designed " for gut strings. However, tens of
millions of people thru out the world would agree, it doesn't sound half
bad
with plastic either, even though it was designed for gut
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:05 AM
Subject: Antwort: Re: Antwort: RE: Gutsy stories
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear David,
>
> of course you are right! it's completely logical and actually meets my
> personal thoughts about the tension on old lutes. Mea culpa! Maybe
Monday
> syndrom?
>
> Best wishes
> Thomas
>
>
>
>
> LGS-Europe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 31.01.2005 09:59:49
>
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED], lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Kopie:
>
> Thema: Re: Antwort: RE: Gutsy stories
>
> > the implication of smaller holes in the bridge would be either the old
> > lutenists used a higher tension than we do
>
> Actually, it's the other way round. I could quote Mersenne or Galilei,
but
> it is easier to imagine it on your own lute:
>
> Try tuning a 0.40mm gut string to a high g' on a renaissance lute of
60cm.
> It will almost break, but if lucky, you can use it for one or two weeks.
> Try tuning a 2.00mm gut string to a high g' on a renaissance lute of
60cm.
> Chances are your string or lute will break because of the high tension.
>
> Or to put it differently:
>
> Try tuning a 2.00mm gut string to a low D on a renaissance lute of 60cm.
It
>
> will be dull, but work.
> Try tuning a 0.40mm gut string to a low D on a renaissance lute of 60cm.
> Chances are you won't like it because of the low tension.
>
> So, thick string = high tension. Thin string = low tension.
>
> I wrote a little something on string tensions including Mersenne on my
web
> site: Http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/david/
>
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:26 AM
> Subject: Antwort: RE: Gutsy stories
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Rob
> >
> > the implication of smaller holes in the bridge would be either the old
> > lutenists used a higher tension than we do or the strings they used
would
> > be made of a different material. I've read somewhere in an article
> > guessing
> > the gut strings would be different from our modern times gut strings
> > (assuming environmental influences). I think this is somehow plausible
> but
> > still guesswork. Or is there evidence for this?
> > So I would think they used higher tension.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Thomas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Rob MacKillop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 30.01.2005 09:20:54
> >
> > An: "'Lute net'" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Kopie:
> >
> > Thema: RE: Gutsy stories
> >
> > A luthier once told me that many of the original bridge string holes
are
> > too
> > small for the diameters we choose for 'modern' gut. Is this true, and
if
> > so
> > what are the implications?
> >
> > Also, many luthiers drill bridge holes on their instruments for wound
> > synthetic strings, and when you decide to experiment with gut, you too
> > will
> > find that the holes are too narrow. On two occasions I have had to have
> > the
> > holes widened.
> >
> > There is some connection between these two paragraphs...
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 29 January 2005 20:20
> > To: Michael Thames; LGS-Europe; Lute net; Edward Martin
> > Subject: Re: Gutsy stories
> >
> > No argument here. The extended bass length is precisely for that
> > purpose.......with the longer basses, the required strings will
> > necessarily
> >
> > require a smaller string diameter. I am uncertain if it gives more
> volume
> > and sustain, but for sure, a better clarity of pitch and sound. These
> > instruments were designed for gut strings.
> >
> > ed
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and
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