Yes, there is a real problem about pitch standards and the string length of many barouque plucked instruments. 13 course lutes are quite often longer than the 70.5 cms Ed mentions, and there is a large chamber repertory for such instruments with flute, so that the lute needs to conform to the flute pitch standard. However, I do wonder about modern gut first strings. They don't usually snap so much as unravel, and this seems to me due to the fact that they are polished with a modern centreless grinder, which gives a high degree of trueness, but at the cost of cutting through many fibres. I believe that late C19th violin top strings were either left unground, or were very lightly polished=A0 by hand. Many years ago, I bought a quantity of surgical gut, and found that I had to throw most of it away as being untrue, but that the relatively true strings seemed to last for ever (on a baroque lute of 72 cms, at A=415.
Martin In a message dated 26/4/05 2:10:45 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Dear Taco, > > This is one of the mysteries we have yet to answer.=A0 In my opinion, with > the larger instruments with longer string lengths, the instrument was tuned > lower.=A0 For example, your 65 cm lute should actually be in F, not in G > (a=440).=A0 That string length exceeds the upper limits of gut. > > There are some people who do not want to accept this fact, because modern > strings (i.s. carbon, nylgut, nylon) can be pitched higher than gut. > > The old treatises say to "tune the highest course as high as it goes before > it breaks", or something like that.=A0 At 415 - G at 65 cm, you have exceeded > that limit & the string breaks.=A0 I know of no way in constructing a gut > string in a manner that makes the treble exceed this limit.=A0 The physics & > science of gut has shown that there are properties that cannot be changed - > at least that anyone has discovered. > > For example, for G at 440, anything longer than 60 cm will result in > premature string breakage.=A0 61-63=A0 will work for F#, and 64 - 66 or so > will > work for F (440). > > Our problems in modern times is that we assume because it is an archlute, > it should be tuned with a treble string at G (440 or 415).=A0 If you want to > have it in G, you need to: > > 1.=A0 Get a shorter instrument if it must be in "G" > 2.=A0 Use synthetic trebles, as the upper limit of gut is exceeded. > > I have the same problem with my gut strung baroque lute, at 70.5 cm.=A0 I > have it at 415, but the longest one should have for a treble (F at 415) is > 68 cm.=A0 Anything else will break prematurely.=A0 The answer is that this > instrument should be at a = 392.=A0 Thinner strings do not work. The smallest > a treble should be is .42 (maybe .40).=A0 Thinner strings do not work, as > there are not enough fibers in the gut to support the string, and it will > sound too "thin" in my opinion. > > So, if you want the treble in gut, tune the archlute to F, and it will > work, as it is the appropriate pitch for that length.=A0 I hope this helps. > > ed > > > > At 01:35 PM 4/26/2005 +0200, Taco Walstra wrote: > >Has anybody an answer to the following. > >Archlutes often have a stringlength of about 65 cm. Tuning at 415 hz gives > >for > >a gut topstring a tension of 40 N, which is very high. My experience so far > >is that a gut string of 0.40 mm (I take 1350 kg/m3) is dying within an > hour. > >I.e. not breaking but damaged due to the high tension. Fortunately I have > >some 0.38 and even 0.36 mm gut strings. The last is working fine. But a > 0.36 > >mm string is something which is perhaps possible with modern stringmachines > >but in the past it was surely not. And I know only one stringmaker who is > >making these. So what was put on for example a sellas in the past? Was > >everything tuned down to 392 Hz? Some instruments were even 67 cm, so how > to > >handle such an instrument without using carbon strings? > >Taco Walstra > > > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at > >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota=A0 55812 > e-mail:=A0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > voice:=A0 (218) 728-1202 > > > > > > > --
