Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 01:31:51AM +0200, Luca Olivetti wrote: > In the case of the wifi chip you could buy it from atheros or ralink > (and I'm sure there are other), that at least have open drivers, and > don't base their business model on linux without giving anything back > like broadcom. A

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

En/na Theodore Tso ha escrit: > a custom chip to becoming FAR more expensive than simply buying a CPU > from Intel or AMD --- or a wifi chip from Broadcom or a Video chipset > from Nvidia. In the case of the wifi chip you could buy it from atheros or ralink (and I'm sure there are other), that a

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Theodore Tso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 03:54:40PM -0600, Mark wrote: >> >> Because it *is* obvious. The fundamental assumption is that the given >> company has the size and resources to manufacture chips. Give that >> capability, yes, it i

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

> OpenMoko is not a business, it's a non-profit research organization. > The new phone, when it finally will cost $400 for a tri-band GSM > phone, bluetooth, and GPS. It will have no EDGE support; no 3G > support. Basic PDA functionality will be included out of the box, but > not much else. > > C

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Theodore Tso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 05:44:57PM -0400, Steve Brown wrote: >> Business reality? *looks over at OpenMoko* Although it isn't mine to worry >> about, some companies (smaller ones than nokia, even) seem to be doing fine >> in

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 03:54:40PM -0600, Mark wrote: > > Because it *is* obvious. The fundamental assumption is that the given > company has the size and resources to manufacture chips. Give that > capability, yes, it is *always* cheaper for them to manufacture their > own. Your naiveté is touch

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've heard many times conspiration theories like this. They usually > involve making the "enemy" smarter than he actually is or will ever be. > You are well down that road. > I don't believe in conspiracies. I believe in t

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 05:44:57PM -0400, Steve Brown wrote: > Business reality? *looks over at OpenMoko* Although it isn't mine to worry > about, some companies (smaller ones than nokia, even) seem to be doing fine > in this business reality. What's better, OpenMoko seem to be delivering open > ha

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Mark wrote: > Nokia has the resources to develop its own chips, which it could > easily keep open. That would solve the problems for everybody (meaning > consumers, developers and Nokia). Perhaps. One way to look at this is the old VHS/Beta debate of 20 years ago. Sony's beta was technically the

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Theodore Tso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 02:44:01PM -0600, Mark wrote: >> >> What you're talking about is "outsourcing", which contrary to popular >> misconception is NOT cheaper than doing things in-house. EVER. What >> outsourcing allows u

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 15:10 -0600, ext Mark wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 14:30 -0600, ext Mark wrote: > > > >> What he *really* means is "until we accept their statements at face > >> value with no questions". "Learning"

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

> From: Andre Klapper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Am Freitag, den 13.06.2008, 16:28 -0400 schrieb Steve Brown: > > No joke; I don't want my phone to be like a car, I hate cars. It's > > kind of sad that Jaaksi feels he needs to teach open source developers > > something, instead of learn from them. First

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Very well. That was all I wanted to say too. Thanks a lot. -- Aniello - Original message - > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 08:24:05PM +0200, Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: > > Ari reply: > > > > > > Here's my contribution to this discussion: > >        http://thunk.org

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Jonathan D. Proulx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Have people read Jaaksi's blog (previously linked to) > http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ before responding? > > It's not quite so inflaming as article that started this thread. > > Not saying you need ot agree with his po

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Theodore Tso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's my contribution to this discussion: > > http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2008/06/13/learning-how-to-communicate/ > >- Ted thank you - stated very well -rich _

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 02:44:01PM -0600, Mark wrote: > > What you're talking about is "outsourcing", which contrary to popular > misconception is NOT cheaper than doing things in-house. EVER. What > outsourcing allows unethical management to do is to hide some of the > costs elsewhere, and have f

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Have people read Jaaksi's blog (previously linked to) http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ before responding? It's not quite so inflaming as article that started this thread. Not saying you need ot agree with his position in the blog either, but having been quoted by media before, I'm much more inclined

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 08:24:05PM +0200, Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: > Ari reply: > > Here's my contribution to this discussion: http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2008/06/13/learning-how-to-communicate/ - Ted _

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Friday 13 June 2008 21:28:09 Steve Brown wrote: > We/I want > to buy, and work on open devices. It's really as simple as that. I would like to do that as well. But I don't see any such devices being created. (I would also like a flying car). Android most certainly is not that. And no GSM

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Igor Stoppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 14:30 -0600, ext Mark wrote: > >> What he *really* means is "until we accept their statements at face >> value with no questions". "Learning" is the very last thing they want >> us to do, because that me

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 14:30 -0600, ext Mark wrote: > What he *really* means is "until we accept their statements at face > value with no questions". "Learning" is the very last thing they want > us to do, because that means the acquisition of knowledge. They don't > want us to know what's really g

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Am Freitag, den 13.06.2008, 16:28 -0400 schrieb Steve Brown: > No joke; I don't want my phone to be like a car, I hate cars. It's > kind of sad that Jaaksi feels he needs to teach open source developers > something, instead of learn from them. First off: we don't want to be > taught about Nokia's b

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Theodore Tso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 01:01:51PM -0600, Mark wrote: >> Nokia has the resources to develop its own chips, which it could >> easily keep open. That would solve the problems for everybody (meaning >> consumers, developers and

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Aniello Del Sorbo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't understand. > We always ask companies to become open source and they had almost never > listened. > Now that Nokia is moving towards open source, we shout at them. > > What's the reasoning ? Have you ever hear

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: > > I think that what Ari wanted too say is that Nokia and the industry in > > general is not YET ready to work the way the open source community > > wants them to. > > Matthew wrote: > Well, goodbye then Nokia. We'll all switch to OpenMoko or Android. > > No joke; I don'

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 01:01:51PM -0600, Mark wrote: > Nokia has the resources to develop its own chips, which it could > easily keep open. That would solve the problems for everybody (meaning > consumers, developers and Nokia). Many companies can *afford* to build and design new chips from scrat

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Aniello, I totally agree with you, and all Please remember Open Source is kinda of licensing and it is the way to license the work , not to work and create for single reason which is making it Open Source Please remember as much as Open Source is needed Close Source is Needed Regards Samer On Sa

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

I don't understand. We always ask companies to become open source and they had almost never listened. Now that Nokia is moving towards open source, we shout at them. What's the reasoning ? By the way, Ari was just talking to "you". You say that they can make their own chip...that's exactly what

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Nokia has the resources to develop its own chips, which it could easily keep open. That would solve the problems for everybody (meaning consumers, developers and Nokia). But they're not doing it out of fear of backlash from the closed community. Heaven help the company that sticks its neck out and

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Ari reply: -- Aniello On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:15 PM, tanguyr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm with you: i put a grand and a half of nokia products in my pocket every > day (n95 8gb + n810 + bluetooth gps, headset, headphones, etc) and nokia can > kiss me and my ga

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

I'm with you: i put a grand and a half of nokia products in my pocket every day (n95 8gb + n810 + bluetooth gps, headset, headphones, etc) and nokia can kiss me and my gadget budget goodbye unless i get what i want: a phone that behaves like my laptop, on which i can install any app i want (open or

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:47:25PM -0500, mathew wrote: > Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: > > I think that what Ari wanted too say is that Nokia and the industry in > > general is not YET ready to work the way the open source community > > wants them to. > > > Well, goodbye then Nokia. We'll all switch

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: > I think that what Ari wanted too say is that Nokia and the industry in > general is not YET ready to work the way the open source community > wants them to. > Well, goodbye then Nokia. We'll all switch to OpenMoko or Android. > I read his wording this way: "we want to

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

With the Android shipping next year, I wonder what effect it will have on the debate? Since Apple announced it's SDK, I have noticed a large drop in the number of applications being developed, as well as updates being published. I think this is an indicator that the market, or a subset of the mark

Re: Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

This has been caught by a slashdotter too and the comments we're on the very same tone. I think that what Ari wanted too say is that Nokia and the industry in general is not YET ready to work the way the open source community wants them to. This is understandable. Their point is to make money and

Nokia: Linux Needs to Learn Business

source: http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2008/gb20080612_288518.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_global+business the killer quote: > Jaaksi admitted that concepts like these [DRM, intellectual property > rights, SIM locks and subsidised business models]"go against the open-source

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