Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-23 Thread James Knott
Marius Vollmer wrote: > "ext James Knott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Further on this. As an experiment, I just installed xvkbd on my main >> system, running the KDE desktop. I then connected to another system via >> ssh and started an application. I am able to use the xvkbd virtual >>

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-23 Thread Marius Vollmer
Ed Bartosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Of course not. Nokia wants the maemo community to be healthy, and >> Nokia, as initiator and part of the community, is currently very much >> in charge of setting the rules and giving directions for future >> improvement. > > I agree with this. My point w

Re: Virtual keyboards (was: Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!)

2007-07-23 Thread Marius Gedminas
On Mon, Jul 23, 2007 at 02:09:28PM +0300, Tomas Junnonen wrote: > ext James Knott wrote: > > I have demonstrated with two different virtual > > keyboards, that it is indeed possible to run an X app via ssh, with a > > virtual keyboard. Now that this fact has been established, perhaps > > you can

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-23 Thread Marius Vollmer
"ext James Knott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Further on this. As an experiment, I just installed xvkbd on my main > system, running the KDE desktop. I then connected to another system via > ssh and started an application. I am able to use the xvkbd virtual > keyboard to type into OpenOffice

Virtual keyboards (was: Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!)

2007-07-23 Thread Tomas Junnonen
ext James Knott wrote: > I have demonstrated with two different virtual > keyboards, that it is indeed possible to run an X app via ssh, with a > virtual keyboard. Now that this fact has been established, perhaps > you can explain why the N800 virtual keyboard fails in this regard. > It is not b

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-23 Thread Marius Vollmer
"ext Tomas Junnonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > - Requesting access through the interface creates an entry in a > ticket tracker, where it can be voted and commented on. Access is > granted (or not) when a repo admin resolves the ticket. Would you do this for each new version of a package,

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-23 Thread Ed Bartosh
On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 13:02 +0300, Marius Vollmer wrote: > "ext Ed Bartosh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 12:08 +0300, ext Tomas Junnonen wrote: > > > >> If there's any additional hoops to jump through people just aren't going > >> to bother. > > > > Yeah, I can see that

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-23 Thread Marius Vollmer
"ext Ed Bartosh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 12:08 +0300, ext Tomas Junnonen wrote: > >> If there's any additional hoops to jump through people just aren't going >> to bother. > > Yeah, I can see that. And you know what? It's not because Nokia not > doing this and that, it

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-23 Thread Ed Bartosh
What do you mean by 'packages from clean 3.2007 and 4.2007 installations'? Are you still speaking about extras repository? >From my point of view first step would be to make clear package acceptance criteria for extras. The next step is to select well tested and widely used by community and users

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-22 Thread James Knott
James Knott wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> David Hagood wrote: >> >>> OK, now, having recapitulated the conversation, I am going to summarize it: >>> >>> YES - IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. You are remoting an X application. The X protocol >>> does not provide enough information for the system to kn

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-22 Thread James Knott
James Knott wrote: > David Hagood wrote: > >> First of all, I am going to take this off list. >> >> Second, I am going to re-order things a bit to try to make some things >> clear: >> >> >> Now, take a few moments, and READ WHAT I JUST WROTE.

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-22 Thread James Knott
David Hagood wrote: > First of all, I am going to take this off list. > > Second, I am going to re-order things a bit to try to make some things > clear: > > >>> Now, take a few moments, and READ WHAT I JUST WROTE. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> I have read it and my point still stands. >> >

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-21 Thread James Knott
DrFredC.com wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> My point is that since it is almost a general purpose computer, people >> should be able to do what ever they want with it, including PDA >> function. That said, I find some of the apps are not quite "there" yet, >> as far as product quality and usab

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-21 Thread James Knott
David Hagood wrote: > On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 21:20 -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> When I use a remote app on my desktop system, the keyboard and mouse >> work with that application. >> > > As they do with the N800. Hook a Bluetooth keyboard up, and it works > just like you said. > > You migh

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-21 Thread DZ
So, the first experiment can be is to adopt packages for 4.2007.26-8 make 'em a base for earlier platforms dist-upgrade. Initially the list of packages from clean 3.2007 and 4.2007 installations should be created for analysis of the difference. Am I right? Denis On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:37:26

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread DrFredC.com
James Knott wrote: > My point is that since it is almost a general purpose computer, people > should be able to do what ever they want with it, including PDA > function. That said, I find some of the apps are not quite "there" yet, > as far as product quality and usability go. For example, while

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread David Hagood
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 21:20 -0400, James Knott wrote: > When I use a remote app on my desktop system, the keyboard and mouse > work with that application. As they do with the N800. Hook a Bluetooth keyboard up, and it works just like you said. You might try actually READING what I posted. >

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread James Knott
David Hagood wrote: > On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 18:29 -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Paul Klapperich wrote: >> Another problem I've encountered, is with remote X apps. On my desktop >> linux systems, I can remotely run apps, via ssh and X. While I can >> start and display those apps on my N800, I

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread James Sparenberg
On Friday 20 July 2007 07:45:16 andrei raevsky wrote: > On 7/20/07, Theodore Tso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > why is it > > that 12-year-old Palm technology still better than anything Nokia can > > put out over a decade later? > > > > And if the Palm Foleo has better PDA applications, it might se

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread David Hagood
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 18:29 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Paul Klapperich wrote: > Another problem I've encountered, is with remote X apps. On my desktop > linux systems, I can remotely run apps, via ssh and X. While I can > start and display those apps on my N800, I can't use the keyboard or > ha

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread andrei raevsky
On 7/20/07, James Knott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My point is that since it is almost a general purpose computer, people should be able to do what ever they want with it, including PDA function. I don't think Nokia ever claimed that the N770/N800 were "general purpose computers". It just ha

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread James Knott
Paul Klapperich wrote: > On 7/20/07, James Knott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> andrei raevsky wrote: >> >>> I personally have no use whatsoever for "PDA applications" and I am >>> quite happy that Nokia did not even try to go down that road. They >>> created a fantastic piece of hardware

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Paul Klapperich
On 7/20/07, James Knott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > andrei raevsky wrote: > > > > I personally have no use whatsoever for "PDA applications" and I am > > quite happy that Nokia did not even try to go down that road. They > > created a fantastic piece of hardware and a rather good OS to run it. >

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread James Knott
andrei raevsky wrote: > > I personally have no use whatsoever for "PDA applications" and I am > quite happy that Nokia did not even try to go down that road. They > created a fantastic piece of hardware and a rather good OS to run it. > Then they added some applications and the rest is up to us,

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Theodore Tso
On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 04:03:33PM +0100, Andrew Flegg wrote: > The community *has* tried to do calendar and contacts applications; > off the top of my head: > > * GPE Suite's (calendar, contacts, todo) > * Opened Hand's Dates and Contacts > * Winzig > * DejaPim > > ...and probably a few othe

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Andrew Flegg
On 7/20/07, andrei raevsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I personally have no use whatsoever for "PDA applications" and I am quite > happy that Nokia did not even try to go down that road. They created a > fantastic piece of hardware and a rather good OS to run it. Then they > added some applica

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread andrei raevsky
On 7/20/07, Theodore Tso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: why is it that 12-year-old Palm technology still better than anything Nokia can put out over a decade later? And if the Palm Foleo has better PDA applications, it might seriouslly threaten the N800; after all, it has built-in keyboard and is o

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Theodore Tso
On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 03:12:47PM +0300, Tomas Junnonen wrote: > Defaults matter. By enabling extras through an install file on garage > you're limiting yourself to the hardcore crowd who knows to visit garage > in the first place. True, but we don't need to wait until the next OS/Firmware refres

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Ed Bartosh
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 15:12 +0300, Tomas Junnonen wrote: > Ed Bartosh wrote: > >> I think at least partially it's because there's no carrot being offered > >> to the developers. If the Extras repository was included in the > >> Application Manager by default, although disabled (as Multiverse is in

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Tomas Junnonen
Ed Bartosh wrote: >> I think at least partially it's because there's no carrot being offered >> to the developers. If the Extras repository was included in the >> Application Manager by default, although disabled (as Multiverse is in >> Ubuntu, you can show a disclaimer when enabling it), people wo

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Ferenc Szekely
Hello, On 7/20/07, Tomas Junnonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ed Bartosh wrote: > > I'd look at it from community point of view. If we want to have one more > > line in /etc/sources.list or in some other configuration file why we > > should wait for Nokia to do that? Is it so hard to make some pa

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Ed Bartosh
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 12:08 +0300, ext Tomas Junnonen wrote: > ext Ed Bartosh wrote: > >> The problem is that the repos are frustrating to access and use, so folks > >> are throwing up their own instead. > > This one I don't understand at all, sorry. What frustration are you > > talking about?

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Marius Vollmer
"ext Tomas Junnonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I think at least partially it's because there's no carrot being offered > to the developers. If the Extras repository was included in the > Application Manager by default, although disabled (as Multiverse is in > Ubuntu, you can show a disclaimer

RE: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread quim.gil
Just a quickie while I'm writing a longer response: - maemo unstable repository. Let's talk about this, but it is a discussion that needs to be done with the developers and at a development level. The value of the distro relies on the use upstream and other third party developers would make of it.

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Riku Voipio
Tomas Junnonen wrote: > I think at least partially it's because there's no carrot being offered > to the developers. If the Extras repository was included in the > Application Manager by default, although disabled (as Multiverse is in > Ubuntu, you can show a disclaimer when enabling it), people wo

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Luca Donaggio
2007/7/20, Tomas Junnonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: - Integrate it with the garage project page! When creating a release and uploading files to the project, there should be a checkbox on the release page for automagically pushing the packages to the repository. If there's any additional hoops to jump

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Tomas Junnonen
ext Ed Bartosh wrote: >> The problem is that the repos are frustrating to access and use, so folks >> are throwing up their own instead. > This one I don't understand at all, sorry. What frustration are you > talking about? For those developers who has garage accounts it's just > matter of send

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-20 Thread Ed Bartosh
On Thu, 2007-07-19 at 16:38 -0400, ext Mike Lococo wrote: > >> You mention several repositories that don't belong to us [Nokia]. We don't > >> respond of them. We can't and won't stop developers from creating their > >> own repositories. > > > > Maybe someone can monitor intersting and widely used

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-19 Thread Mike Lococo
>> You mention several repositories that don't belong to us [Nokia]. We don't >> respond of them. We can't and won't stop developers from creating their >> own repositories. > > Maybe someone can monitor intersting and widely used packages moving it to > the extras repo notifying package develope

Re: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-19 Thread krakatau
> So it's not that simple, specially if you are Nokia and you have to > provide perfect dist-upgrade's to your customers under guarantee. But you can give users the choice to select option to install from unstable repository which may contain OS upgrade packages and this practice is ordinary.

RE: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!

2007-07-18 Thread quim.gil
Hi Andrei, > How does one take something as beautiful as " apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" and > reduce it to such a total disaster?! We can't compare Nokia with the Debian project just because both use .deb packages. The software development process is different, the end users are dif