Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
I've got a bit of MySQL background. My time is still limited, so I
won't commit to coding I can't depend on myself to finish -- but if
you want someone to help out on DB design and stuff, I'm in. I'll do
what I can and maybe help avoid some of the potholes. I'd like to s
On Jan 30, 2004, at 9:46 PM, Kevin McCann wrote:
there are always solutions. Not all of them are already packaged up
and waiting to be found, or easily created through talk.
I understand this, Chuq. For me, the most pressing thing is the SQL
activity. And as I have mentioned, we're ready to contr
I'll continue to look forward for solutions.
there are always solutions. Not all of them are already packaged up
and waiting to be found, or easily created through talk.
I understand this, Chuq. For me, the most pressing thing is the SQL
activity. And as I have mentioned, we're ready to contr
On Jan 30, 2004, at 12:15 PM, Kevin McCann wrote:
I have the unenviable challenge of moving these people to a Mailman
environment without making them feel like it is a step backward.
A laudible goal. And sometimes, the only way to make it possible is
through some front end investment. Open So
On Jan 30, 2004, at 12:13 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
It's possible. But then again who knows what the email landscape will
look like in 5 years? I'm betting it'll look a /lot/ different than it
does today, unless it doesn't.
Raises hand.
Or more correctly, two visions. what I think it should be, an
On Jan 30, 2004, at 11:42 AM, Kevin McCann wrote:
I'm simply thinking about MLM challenges, which are increasing every
day, it seems,
I disagree. the MLM stuff is doing quite well. There are challenges at
the e-mail level, but non-MLM-email suffers as badly as MLM-email. And
I really think the
On Jan 30, 2004, at 11:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Howdy. I would think that Mailman's job is not to provide free
marketing
tools but to act as a list processor.
Mailman is a tool. Asking it to discern intent in its use is like
asking a gun to only shoot bad people. The gun does what it's to
On Jan 30, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Somuchfun wrote:
We are running a list with about 50,000 subscribers.
that's a fair sized list, yes. What's it running on? Are you asking too
much of your hardware?
As an admin I do not really care if some people think AOL does not have
their act together or not - i
god, I just realized I forgot to post these here. Hope you don't mind,
Barry.
Full-time postmaster position (primarily administrative, not technical):
http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/001267.html
"List mom": (moderately technical, with internal evangelism and needs
analysis, and helping u
On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 15:28, Somuchfun wrote:
> So basically anyone can unsubscribe someone else.
Not true in Mailman 2.1, unless that someone is a logged in list
administrator. Then that person can unsub anybody through the
Membership Management pages.
-Barry
___
On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 16:33, Somuchfun wrote:
> Can someone explain the exact mechanism mailman uses for unsubscriptions? I
> see some of them are done without a confirmation and some members get an
> email with a token asked to return it to confirm their unsubscription.
> I have played around wit
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 15:38, Kevin McCann wrote:
> Thanks for you cordial and helpful response. If I can get up-to-speed
> with Python in order to work on the MySQL side of things, or if you
> think I could contribute with just the MySQL know-how, I'll go.
> Otherwise, I'll be sending someone
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 09:14, Kevin McCann wrote:
> Barry, what's the word? Have any SQL folks contacted you?
/No one/ has contacted me about SQL or anything else. My co-worker Fred
Drake's offered to hack on a MM3 sprint, but since he's in the same boat
as I am, we probably won't do it if it's j
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 15:15, Kevin McCann wrote:
> I'll continue to look forward for solutions. Flame away if it'll make
> you feel like a better person, but I'm not giving up that easily.
I for one, hope you don't give up Kevin!
Mailman's come a long way since its humble beginnings, and I enjo
At 3:16 PM -0500 2004/01/30, Barry Warsaw wrote:
I'd support such an effort. I think the right way to go about this
would be to design a protocol (or perhaps an API) for MLM/MTA
communication. I'd be less enthusiastic about a solution that was
unique to a particular MTA.
Agreed. I think th
At 9:06 PM +0100 2004/01/30, Ricardo wrote:
about improving delivery speed: what about implementing LMTP?
(http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/rfc/rfc2033.txt)
That's for local message delivery, from the MTA to the recipient.
That's not where we're hurting.
--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 10:49 AM -0800 2004/01/30, Somuchfun wrote:
Like I said, I have tried other softwares on the market and used their
personalization feature. I even tried the same list on the same machine.
Mailman needed with personalization about 8.5 hrs. to send out one message
to all 50,000 people and Lyr
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 02:51, moron wrote:
> Ok though I have not seen evidence of this using Exim. But a 2 to 5 times
> increase in bandwidth use is a lot.
C'mon, isn't legitimate mail of any kind now just noise in the
spam/virii storms? You won't even notice it. :)
-Barry
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 15:06, Ricardo wrote:
> Speaking of personalization: what is the main reason it hasn't been
> implemented for digests yet? Simply a lack of time or are there some
> important design issues which make it difficult?
For stupid reasons, Mailman decorates digests when it's com
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 01:40, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> works great with AOL, as long as it's not a digest being reported.
> That's so rare I don't bother with it.
Most lists on python.org have converted to doing the same. I just
noticed mailman-developers didn't include %(user_optionsurl)s in i
If you'd read your own thread, you'd know the answer already. Lyris
is its own MTA - it speaks SMTP directly to the recipients' mail
servers. This allows it to do on-the-fly customization at SMTP
transmit time instead of having to queue each unique message.
Fair dues.
I'll make you a deal - you
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 15:22, Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yes, that would be VERY helpful. I've had a couple instances where that would have
> helped me. Turn
> it on for all.
Turn what on? So far there aren't any specific proposals, i.e. "Add
this header and make it contain that informatio
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 14:10, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Hey, give Barry a few million dollars to fix up Mailman properly,
> and I'm sure that he could come up with a way to write a custom MTA
> (or do whatever else is necessary) to make it competitive with other
> MLMs out there.
Man, I was t
Barry Warsaw wrote:
So Kevin, you coming to PyconII? I still don't have (m)any volunteers
joining me in a Mailman 3 sprint. :(
-Barry
Hi Barry,
Thanks for you cordial and helpful response. If I can get up-to-speed
with Python in order to work on the MySQL side of things, or if you
think I
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 13:49, Somuchfun wrote:
> Here is what I do not understand from the discussion:
> Mailman in its current form is slow and if personalization is turned on
> users cannot even get into the mailman site anymore because it takes up all
> available resources.
I don't totally belie
Yes, that would be VERY helpful. I've had a couple instances where that would have helped me. Turn
it on for all.
BOb
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 17:21, Somuchfun wrote:
Mailman needs to create something like an x-client-id header that has the
recipient email address in it beca
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 14:20, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Perhaps, for Mailman 3, Barry could talk to people like Eric
> Allman, Wietse Venema, and other solid MTA authors, to see if there
> is a way we could get a certain amount of message customization
> pulled into the MTA, without killing th
Maybe I ought to explain what I'm up against. At work I'm running Lyris.
I have hundreds of lists and many, many members. I also have Mailman
running a handful of small-ish lists (and at home I run a server with
Mailman for a personal interest discussion list of nearly 1,000
members). My organ
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 13:23, Kevin McCann wrote:
> > I'll make you a deal - you write the MTA, and I'll add support in
> > mailman to offload the personalization.
>
> I do not personally have the skills to do this but I wouldn't rule out
> trying to get the funding to help make it happen. I won
On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 08:52, Kevin McCann wrote:
> Why is it, then, that Lyris can send personalized messages to lists with
> hundreds of thousands of members with no problem? I don't personally
> have any lists that are nearly that big but I can tell you that my Lyris
> box sends messages to
Hi,
A few things I wanted to respond to.
First of all, I agree that personalization is an important feature for
certain lists. Especially if your target audience isn't the average
computer geek. I need it for two reasons: easy unsubscription and
bulletproof bounce detection (or better:
reporte
On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 17:21, Somuchfun wrote:
> Mailman needs to create something like an x-client-id header that has the
> recipient email address in it because this header will stay intact when a
> complaint comes back.
> This header needs to be created whether mailman runs in personalization m
Brad Knowles wrote:
There are some things that Barry has already ruled out. Writing a
custom MTA for Mailman is one of those things.
Don't even bother barking up this tree.
Perhaps, for Mailman 3, Barry could talk to people like Eric
Allman, Wietse Venema, and other solid MTA author
At 10:49 AM -0800 2004/01/30, Somuchfun wrote:
Like I said, I have tried other softwares on the market and used their
personalization feature. I even tried the same list on the same machine.
Mailman needed with personalization about 8.5 hrs. to send out one message
to all 50,000 people and Lyr
At 1:23 PM -0500 2004/01/30, Kevin McCann wrote:
I do not personally have the skills to do this but I wouldn't rule
out trying to get the funding to help make it happen. I wonder if
there is there enough collective know-how among Mailman developers
and other interested parties. Let me ask: if
At 9:04 AM -0800 2004/01/30, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
fair cop. you're right, Brad. I was tired, didn't think it through.
But I still think the user experience issues trump the Network/disk
issues. we're here to make life easier for people, not computers.
I agree. We are here to make life easi
At 4:07 PM +0100 2004/01/30, Dietmar Maurer wrote:
is it possible to tell mailman to change the message ID of a mail,
so that the original mail and the mails delivered to the members
have different IDs?
Sure. You can hack the source code to do whatever you want.
Short of hacking the source
At 8:52 AM -0500 2004/01/30, Kevin McCann wrote:
Why is it, then, that Lyris can send personalized messages to lists
with hundreds of thousands of members with no problem?
Maybe they have their own custom MTA that is tightly integrated
into the mailing list manager.
> All I want is a fast and cheap engine that can help me reach my goal - to
> get the email to my customers quickly and to offer easy management
> capabilities.
> So far I like mailman's management capabilities. The performance has left me
> being disappointed.
Howdy. I would think that Mailman's
Here is what I do not understand from the discussion:
Mailman in its current form is slow and if personalization is turned on
users cannot even get into the mailman site anymore because it takes up all
available resources.
We are running a list with about 50,000 subscribers.
As an admin I do not re
Carson Gaspar wrote:
If you'd read your own thread, you'd know the answer already. Lyris is
its own MTA - it speaks SMTP directly to the recipients' mail servers.
This allows it to do on-the-fly customization at SMTP transmit time
instead of having to queue each unique message.
Fair dues.
I'll
--On Friday, January 30, 2004 08:52:05 -0500 Kevin McCann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Why is it, then, that Lyris can send personalized messages to lists with
hundreds of thousands of members with no problem? I don't personally
If you'd read your own thread, you'd know the answer already. Lyris
On Jan 30, 2004, at 4:59 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:
Sorry, I don't buy this argument. If you have two choices: use
more CPU time and network, or improve the end-user experience,
choosing "less work for the computer" is almost always the wrong
answer.
You know damn good and well that this is not
On Jan 30, 2004, at 5:52 AM, Kevin McCann wrote:
You know damn good and well that this is not a CPU issue. This
is a disk I/O capacity issue (synchronous meta-data updates).
Moreover, you also know full well that there are serious performance
issues with enabling personalization mode on la
Hi all,
is it possible to tell mailman to change the message ID of a mail, so that the
original mail and the mails delivered to the members have different IDs?
best regards,
Dietmar
---
Dietmar Maurer Maurer IT Systemlösungen KEG
A while ago Barry posted a message about a Mailman 3 sprint which is to
occur in March. I was wondering if any SQL (especially MySQL) people are
planning to go. If you have strong Python and MySQL skills, please drop
me a note. I'm trying to identify a candidate from among a few
organizations
Brad Knowles wrote:
At 10:44 PM -0800 2004/01/29, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
Sorry, I don't buy this argument. If you have two choices: use
more CPU time and network, or improve the end-user experience,
choosing "less work for the computer" is almost always the wrong
answer.
You know damn
At 11:51 PM -0800 2004/01/29, moron wrote:
Howdy. Again, how does including an extra header help the end user
experience?
It doesn't. Enabling personalization does.
The original complaint was due to AOL being bass ackwards and
somehow feeling that an email address in an arbitr
At 11:19 PM -0800 2004/01/29, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
With the exception of network traffic, it's actually pretty trivial
stuff.
Uh, no. Not just "no", but "Hell, no!"
Increased network traffic is one cost, yes. But there are plenty
of other additional costs as well, some of which are cons
At 10:44 PM -0800 2004/01/29, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
Sorry, I don't buy this argument. If you have two choices: use
more CPU time and network, or improve the end-user experience,
choosing "less work for the computer" is almost always the wrong
answer.
You know damn good and well that this is
At 10:41 PM -0800 2004/01/29, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
I've written a couple of servers that do this.
That do what?
I think every server
should now, so all of mine do.
What do they do?
--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"They that can give up
At 5:45 PM -0800 2004/01/29, Somuchfun wrote:
That is actually not true. I tested both Gordano's communicator and Lyris
Listmanager and both are able to handle this requirement without a problem.
I would like to see the evidence of this claim.
I've been doing mail systems for over ten years,
On January 29, 2004 11:19 pm, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> Lots of research with end-users, studying their needs and researching
> the places that they struggle using these systems, and having designed
> and built a number of list servers over the years that are used by a
> wide range of users, not al
On Jan 29, 2004, at 11:04 PM, moron wrote:
Howdy. I do not understand why you would feel that adding a
personalized
header makes the list experience any better.
Lots of research with end-users, studying their needs and researching
the places that they struggle using these systems, and having de
On January 29, 2004 10:44 pm, you wrote:
> Sorry, I don't buy this argument. If you have two choices: use more CPU
> time and network, or improve the end-user experience, choosing "less
> work for the computer" is almost always the wrong answer.
Howdy. I do not understand why you would feel that
55 matches
Mail list logo
