On 8/6/10 4:14 PM, Aaron Kreider wrote:
"Incorrect table name 'dbtest8_energyjustice.net'"
I could easily see that .'s could be invalid in table names.
-Dale
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Barry Warsaw wrote:
Now I can hit 'reply' and inject myself seamlessly into that 2 year
old thread.
As long as the mailing list name/address hasn't migrated/changed in
the interim...
Good point.
...perhaps the original message munged to ensure current accuracy of
the to/cc/reply-to fields?
Barry Warsaw wrote:
Let's say I just joined the XEmacs development mailing list after a long
absence. I find a message in the archive from two years ago that is
relevant to an issue I'm having. I'd like to follow up to that message
using my normal mail toolchain, but I found the archive page
Ian Eiloart wrote:
> Mailman would need to reject mail after RCPT TO if the sender isn't
> permitted to post to the list, or if the recipient address doesn't
> refer to a list.
Or a list owner, etc.
-Dale
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Ian Eiloart wrote:
> Actually, I'm veering towards the notion that we should be creating a
> climate where the only sensible way to avoid collateral spam is to publish
> SPF records.
That's not always trivial. I get plenty of back scatter, and I've tried
to do this to reduce that, but I've bee
Jo Rhett wrote:
> I don't care what is done. Do something that makes it better.
This is an open source project. You are welcome to use it as is or
modify it to your liking. (I believe--someone confirm, please) you even
have the right to distribute your modified version. You're welcome to
ma
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> If somebody knows offhand how to find the archived discussions for the
> RFC, please post an URL.
The RFC says it was discussed on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list.
http://www.imc.org/ietf-822/mail-archive/msg05940.html Seems to be the
thread root for the last dis
Jeff Breidenbach wrote:
> 5.85 million messages
> That's 0.03% if you count all the messages. It is 0.008% if you
> discard the top three offenders, all of which I have contacted.
I'd say that's a strong argument for just using the Message-ID and
simplifying this tremendously...
...Barry, do yo
Jeff Breidenbach wrote:
> So I just looked at 2 million raw messages from 2007, spread over
> a few thousand mailing lists (all data is from mail-archive.com). My
> first question was - when comparing only with messages from the
> same list - how many times do I see a repeated message-id? The
> ans
Jeff Breidenbach wrote:
> In addition, Barry was talking about concocting a unique
> identifier from the Date field and Message-ID. I'm not a big fan of
> this idea, because the date field comes from the mail user agent
> and is often wildly corrupt; e;g; coming from 100 years in the future.
Oh--I
Terri Oda wrote:
> I've been doing a lot of thinking about interface, and I'm coming to
> the conclusion that something more like a web bulletin board is
> probably the way to go
For public lists, the answer may lie in external tools like nabble.com
or mailinglistarchive.com
Of course, that
ref) will do :-)
Yeah--that gunk is what they suggest as a replacement, but not what I
ended up using. Just the url is sufficient (albeit long). (Since I'm
depending upon outside resources to make this work, why not rely on
*both* tinyurl.com *and* recaptcha.net ? :-)
-Dale Newfield
http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/
-Dale
Dhttp://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01Qtvu7BFKxAunezLXAq0QPA==&c=QjjpEgddAt0UK7mq_dl1B-AnlzQr8HHSAY7jwMSGwJ0=";
onclick="window.open('http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01Qtvu7BFKxAunezLXAq0QPA==&c=QjjpEgddAt0UK7mq_dl1B-AnlzQr8HHSAY7jwMSGwJ0=','','toolbar=0,sc
I'm all for someone taking ownership of this long-neglected component --
thank you for doing so!
Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Maybe a way to think about this is that the canonical url is based on
> the message-id, but then there's some way to distill even this down
> to a tinyurl or simple integer t
Giuliano Gavazzi wrote:
> Turning off listname-request (and mailman-request and the confirm
> addresses too!) for a site is not difficult, just blacklist incoming
> mail to those addresses and change the text of the relevant messages
> and pages to reflect that.
Or more simply, just remove t
Brad Knowles wrote:
> I think we're better off spending our resources working on trying to
> resolve the real bottleneck issues that we already know are present
> in our system as opposed to working on cool stuff that may or may not
> help but would require more overall changes to more parts of
Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> the virtual file should indeed contain the hostname. The aliases
> file should not. These are two separate files, both of which are
> necessary.
I mostly agree with you, but your solution won't allow true virtual
hosting (having [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTEC
d integrate any
important changes (if any)...
...but CVS on sourceforge for Mailman is turned off...
...any suggestions?
-Dale Newfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Ian Eiloart wrote:
> I'm looking at running Mailman on a cluster of servers, sharing a single
> disk with Apple XSan.
Barry, none of the bdb stuff you were working on is in the 2.1 tree, is
it? bdb does not guarantee acid properties over networked file systems...
-Dale Newfie
hink the result of the previous discussion was:
"Good idea, but too big a new feature for a patch-level release. Provide a
patch and people that want it can use it."
-Dale Newfield
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"Brad Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm sorry. This is a case where you have to own all the pieces
>to the puzzle yourself before you can have a reasonable hope of being
>able to make them all fit together.
I do not believe this is the case. Given a sufficiently generalizable sql
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The quick answer would be to not bother and wait until version 3 of
> Mailman
That would be the easy answer, but since there is currently no ETA (as
far as I know) for MM3, that certainly wouldn't be the quick answer.
-Dale Newfield
[EMAI
Carl Fink wrote:
> What I'd like to do is write a plugin. However, I have been unable to
> find a description of a Mailman plugin API
While I agree with the previous poster that Mailman may not be the tool
you're looking for, the answer to your question is: The place in
mailman to look is at
hout
having ever proved you receive mail sent to the email address in question
is of dubious value.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Tobias Eigen wrote:
I'm really impressed with Googlegroups.
There are important tradeoffs to consider. My only interaction with
google groups is that I now receive about 150 pieces of spam from them
every day. I am unable to stem this, and google won't help me to do so.
As a result I have add
Brad Knowles wrote:
> So, every package written in Perl should include a complete Perl
> implementation of its very own?
You have misunderstood me. I'm not talking about the languages, I'm
talking about fink and darwinPorts. If the only clean way to get
multiple language versions to play well t
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
(1) Apple already has a couple of "multi-version" applications
standard (in particular, GCC, see the gcc_select utility)
gcc_select is completely broken, and doesn't work. It assumes that the
only 3.x is 3.1 and fails even at what it claims to do. I have tried
and fai
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, John Dennis wrote:
> > "mailmanctl stop;config.status;make install;mailmanctl start"
Just remembered that I missed "check_perms -f" in there. Which of course
brings up the point that presumably this script would need lots of
(configuration dependent) changes made to it as wel
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> John makes some really valid points here. While it is a bit more of a
> change, FHS compatibility does make sense. Is this something that we
> can consider for future 2.1.x releases?
Upgradability without problems is very important for patch-le
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, J C Lawrence wrote:
> > The easy way to handle this is to configure your MTA so that it thinks
> > that it is 7-bit only, and it should do the conversion for you.
>
> Exim alas does not fall in that camp, and I need to use Exim as versus
> Postfix due to the fine grained contro
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Given the sorts of things we're talking about doing, I can't imagine
> that NFS could possibly be a good solution.
I don't contest that conclusion. I do worry, though, that mailman may
often times get used by people that don't know enough to realize that
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I've been thinking that, what with all the problems associated with
> BerkeleyDB, it might not make sense to switch to SQLite as the embedded,
> default database for MM3.
The biggest problem with BerkeleyDB is that it REQUIRES that the file
system support
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
> So you first approve all legitimate emails, get a new legitimate email
> and discard all spam inclusive the last legitimate mail you just got.
>
> Don't really like that idea because of that li'l race...
I agree. From a user interface perspective, t
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Dale Newfield wrote:
> if we want to start these discussions before March.
Oh--I forgot to mention--I'll be joining Barry and whoever in March for
Sunday and Monday of the sprint, and I've got a bunch of SQL experience...
...wasn't somebody asking i
essary to
fold in a more scalable sql backend, and would offer that as another
example if we want to start these discussions before March. I'm dubious,
though, that we'll get as much progress for the time investment doing this
through email instead of in person...
---
Dale Newfield &l
;, 'No such list "%s": %s\n', listname, e)
Is it precisely every 15 minutes? If so it sounds more like a cron job...
...which suggests yet another item that has changed dramatically over the
versions--have you adjusted the crontab entries appropriately? Another
random thought
appens after every single state change, yet the "save" method is a
no-op?
---
Dale Newfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, on the Statue of Liberty
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Iain Bapty wrote:
>6. allow for full-text searching of the archives.
>7. allow for filtering by date, author, and/or topic.
> The minimum I am planning on doing is the first 5 functional
> requirements
> Which of the functional requirements, 6 to 13, do you feel are t
rocessing. If you
don't want real messages to get bounced, encourage people to use mail
clients that aren't so full of holes that the host mail system needs to
cause valid email addresses to bounce.
---
Dale Newfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"They that can give up essential libert
ing what files I would need to
> copy and then modify to, say, create an interface-friendly version of
> list_lists?
Believe it or not, the answer to that question is the file named
"list_lists" located in the bin directory.
Good Luck!
---
Dale Newfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> I'd do this by adding a little Python script that calls
> ApprovedAddMember directly. You could probably do this as a little
> bin/withlist script.
That assumes they're running on the same box...
...what would you suggest if they are not?
-Dale
___
Current CVS. When approving a message with the "Preserve" box checked, I
got the following error. It worked fine w/o checking that box. BTW, this
is working really well, and the VERP-like bounce processing is excellent!
It's possible I caused this--I had this list created before 2.1 that got
up
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Admin pages HTML does not set TEXT color
Why is it mailman's job to protect stupid users from their own browser
settings?
-Dale
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On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Ben Gertzfield wrote:
> Could we change the makefile and/or check_perms to ensure that all files
> in mailman/pythonlib are mode 0644, and all directories are 0755?
I've been testing the current CVS on an OSX box running Postfix, and while
I've had very few problems, yet, one t
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Martin Whinnery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Err, define "populate". Is this a one-time thing? Or do you want the
> > list membership to always come from an LDAP lookup?
>
> The latter. I help run a large educational campus, and we hold all
> accounts and groups in LDAP. Th
I'm guessing from this (and the settings I've got on these lists) that
setting the "Get password reminder email for this list?" flag to "No"
doesn't work.
-Dale
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 05:00:22 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: pyth
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Dan Mick wrote:
> It is expected that cvs without -A might not get everything. It is
> unexpected that -A won't solve that.
And just for the edification of the list, an explanation of the other two
flags Barry suggested:
"-P" says "give me new directories (and their contents)
> > What happens when you do "cvs -q up -P -d -A" ?
> plaidworks.com 162# cvs -z3
> -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/mailman
> update mailman
Am I just being annoying if I point out that you didn't include all the
flags Barry suggested? (Specifically "-A" says "make sure *nothing* is
sticky
Just stumbled across this in Utils.py:
> # TBD: what other characters should be disallowed?
> _badchars = re.compile('[][()<>|;^,/]')
and thought I'd suggest that " and ' get added to that list...
I recently wound up with a list subscriber of the form "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
(*with* the quotes!) an
On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> DN> Wouldn't that abort be triggered by a call to .UnLock()
> DN> without a call to .Save()? I would think that all calls to
> DN> .Lock() and any calls to .UnLock() without a prior call to
> DN> .Save() should abort any current transa
On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> The intent is that .Save() markes the transaction boundary and is
> equivalent to a transaction commit.
Right.
> Thus, if the code in the try causes an exception, the list will still
> get unlocked (otherwise the list would be hosed), but the transac
On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> I have to focus on building this to meet my needs, and my customers'
> needs...
You're already using Python's DB abstraction--I'm just asking you to write
queries in pure SQL rather than using calls specific to that vendor.
-Dale
___
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Dale Newfield wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> > It still doesn't support transactions?
>
> No. :-(
D'oh! Um, I guess I should've read the rest of the posts before
responding.
Now to go read up on that new table type, an
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> It still doesn't support transactions?
No. :-(
-Dale
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On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> Specifically I'm going forward with implementing a MySQL-based archives
> system which can be used as a drop-in replacement for Pipermail which
> which will also provide the functionalities of a web board and a search
> engine optimization system.
Can
On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Dale Newfield wrote:
> # This could probably move inside OldStyleMemberships.py
And the string definitions should probably move inside MemberAdaptor.py...
-Dale
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h
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> >>>>> "DN" == Dale Newfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> DN> I guess what I'm suggesting is that instead of using this
> DN> accessor like this: mlist.getMemberOption(addr,
> DN>
MemberOptions. It's great that we can add more, and it's great that
OldStyleMemberships is smart enough to store them in a bitfield, but it
seems silly to require that all MemberAdaptors do so...
...especially when other database systems that are used to drive Mailman
will want to present interf
On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> Note that if it was too expensive for getRegularMemberKeys() to return
> an in-memory list, it could (if you use Python 2.2) return an iterator
> object that implemented things in a more efficient manner, e.g. by
> paging through blocks. I believe tha
OK--I think I've found the time to build this and contribute it to the
cause!
Just want to make sure that none already exists...
Has anyone built such a beast?
Are there *any* other known implementations to use as references besides
OldStyleMemberships.py?
I'm also wondering about dynamic group
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Michael Meltzer wrote:
> I kind of like the "get the extension form mime type" but it broke down
> as soon as I tried to attach a "word" document, came up a
> application/octet-stream with only the extension as a clue. I like the
> method but I do not think it will last, we wi
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Michael Meltzer wrote:
> BTW reading over the patch, it looks like I got a tab expansion issue,
> sorry, 5am blues :-) new one below
Noticed that. Great catch--thanks for the quick fix. Let me reiterate my
earlier plea (for others to hear, since you've already followed it :
On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> What got in was -- htDig, the search engine. Which happily follows all
> links, including, if you let it spider phpMyAdmin, the "delete this
> database" links. Including the database holding all of the MySQL
> configuration and account info. Which cau
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> A subscription request is going to be guided by the policy in place at
> the time the process is set in motion. Changing that policy in the
> middle isn't going to affect requests that have already started.
Approval was "required" both when the proce
A list had subscriptions set to require both confirmation and approval.
Someone initiates the subscription process through the web interface.
I modified the list to only require approval.
The person sent back their address confirmation, and Mailman subscribed
them (without requiring approval).
I
I've done enough custom hacking in my most important live 2.0.X install
that I always wind up having to install patches by hand to ensure that
nothing bad happens. This is fine, and I've no complaints (hey--what
other software this great lets you modify it so thoroughly and easily?).
My complain
On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> We can protect dumb replybots by making it less convenient for our
> users, essentially by forcing them to perform an action that is unlikely
> (though not impossible, Mr. Turing), to be doable by anything other than
> a human.
What if we make the requ
On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Harald Koch wrote:
> Ideally, I would expect that this variable always be built from mm_cfg;
> it's a property of the mailman install, not a property of an individual
> list.
Not quite true. When you have a single machine running lists for numerous
virtual domains, the diffe
On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> - no dupe patch written by Ben and already in mailman cvs thanks to Barry
Just wanted to note that one big piece of this (which is currently left
out) still causes other problems. The crossposted message is still
recieved multiple times, and even if some
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, John Morton wrote:
> Not bad; it looks fairly easy to implement. I'd build the archive access
> to be just like regular list access, except delivery is turned off by
> default, to keep it simple.
I thought about that, but do you really want to send monthly password
reminders
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, John Morton wrote:
> The problem is that if you accept that those nefarious agents of mass
> email will start auto-joining lists and plunder the private archive and
> message feed for addresses sometime in the future, then you have to
> implement another layer of hackery to de
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, John Morton wrote:
> Ok. Show me a solution
The point is that adding layer after layer of temporary solutions doesn't
add up to an actual solution any more than not adding those layers. All
it does add is more complexity to manage, more code to write and test,
more annoyance
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, John Morton wrote:
> The best we can do here is implement something simple now that gets the
> job done, and continuously test it to see if it's still good enough.
> When it's not, we build another countermeasure.
I completely disagree. You argue for job security. I argue f
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
> should an obfuscation scheme be used at all?
> if yes
> what obfuscation scheme(s) should be used?
> obscured email?
> email as images?
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
> OCR is hard
OCR is hard mostly because of the analog components (and the variety of
fonts that exist). If you are generating the image digitally (and with a
limited set of fonts), most of the OCR problems go away.
> Some examples of reverse turing tes
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
> Making a private archive available to those who are list members
I haven't commented on this before, but the reason I find this solution
lacking is that most mailman lists (in my experience) don't require list
admin permission to join. If this is the h
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, John Morton wrote:
> Actually, the reason not to use it is that it can be used to spam anyone
> who's id mapping you can grab from the archive!
That's a separate issue and can have a separate solution. Make the form
smart--for example, make it only accept 10 messages from a
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> > If you've got a database mapping arbitrary number/name/string to an email
> > address, then why not just have a web form that sends mail to that address
> > knowing only the arbitrary value (and never divulge the email address)?
>
> Basically, what
user 'display address' option.
I don't believe any system like slashdot's is worth the time to implement,
since it is just as easily broken, and now you've got more useless stuff
for every single user to manage.
---
Dale Newfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"To announce
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
> I still think the email-address-as-jpeg solution is prohibitively
> expensive to reverse; effectively impossible for machines, entirely easy
> for people.
But it does have drawbacks.
It only works with graphical browsers.
It can't be enlarged for peop
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> I'm not telling admins what their policies need to be, but I do think
> Mailman needs to understand it's role as a "best practices" tool -- and
> I do feel strongly that whatever an admin does, they do so in a mode
> that involves informed consent wit
e'd get quite a bit of bang for the effort just adding a checkbox
to the admindb page saying "and add this sender to auto-approve list?"
So it's easy to moderate a person's messages as long as you want, and then
also easy to say "yeah--approve this and all future po
I must apologize in advance, since I haven't been paying that close
attention to recent developments here, and this may already be included.
I'd like it to be easy to set up mailman to run with greatly reduced
functionality (to run a single announcement (not discussion) list for a
site), which sh
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> No, it won't. But I suspect that the bulk of the work to get them to
> easily integrate will translate to other people who want to integrate
> Mailman with their own backend systems.
(php and mysql here)
> it's-all-about-the-api's-ly y'rs,
Yep :-)
On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> - For simplicity, let's treat non-fatal bounces (some temporary
> outage) the same as fatal bounces (user goes away)
Your scheme makes sense--I like the idea that subscribers can wind up "on
probation" (assuming the list admin configures the list th
> I've looked at this stuff too, and there are a number of things that
> seem just plain broken to me. I'd like to rewrite it all, but I'm not
> sure there will be time before 2.1.
I poked around in this myself a bit ago, w/o much benefit. It's a bit
jumbled in there, and I thought it was an in
Sorry for this double intrusion, but I must apologize for the first
unintentional one. I had intended to cancel that composition instead of
sending it--sorry for filling your mailboxes with messages empty of
content.
-Dale Newfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED
t account on that box delivers to a local
> mbox which I collect over an IMAP-SSL connection (the wonders of
> fetchmail).
>
> So, I get a decent trust model *and* distribution.
---
Dale Newfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"My country, right or wrong" is not a cogent a
On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Ben Gertzfield wrote:
> David> Ah, filenames. I'd actually like to see the filename stored
> David> on the server as requested in the MIME
> David> content-disposition.
>
> Sure, but duplicates will come in quite quickly; it will be pretty
> useless as soon as 40 p
Really what that means is that I want the functionality of
Mailman, but I want the database to be the mysql one that the other system
uses.
I won't be able to get started on this for another month or so, but
knowing that someone has thought about it gives me warm fuzzies. Any
pitfalls I sho
On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I will leave the ethical debates to others, but if you need to clean
> up messages before approving them through, this patch lets you do it.
> Works for me on 2.0.6
Any chance we can get something like this in 2.1?
---
Dale Newfiel
atabase entries) shouldn't be
pre-fetchable.
-Dale Newfield
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While I know this was spam, the subject points to something I've been
thinking of bringing up. I've only just started using a mailman
installation that has archiving turned on, and pipermail seems reasonable
enough, but what it really seems it needs is a search engine. Has anyone
integrated som
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Thomas Wouters wrote:
> Maildir works by making every message a file on its own. A mailbox is
> a directory with three subdirectories, 'cur', 'new' and 'tmp'.
> Messages in 'new' are unread, messages in 'cur' are read, and messages
> in 'tmp' are in transit.
What about file s
easonably
well?
We're running a FreeBSD box if that matters.
-Dale Newfield
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s coding if others agreed these are desirable
features...
Ooh--since I'm suggesting features I'd like, how 'bout the ability to (on
a list-by-list basis) flip a switch that would trim out all HTML code from
messages sent to th
lists (so it looks like a user has only one
password instead of one per list) helps out, too.
-Dale Newfield
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