On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:15:21PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
> > Except that, as was noted earlier, Chuq's problem *is* his wires.
> > :-)
>
> Umm, those are his wires within his network, not the wires to the
> great untapped 'network at large. Yeesh. MTAs are fundamentally
> disk IO bound. N
On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:42:44 -0500
Jay R Ashworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 01:32:20PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:37:36 -0500 Jay R Ashworth
>> External IO, yes, disk IO, no. QMail allows you to initiate a
>> single spool file with a list of a
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 01:32:20PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:37:36 -0500
> Jay R Ashworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I don't see that there *is* any theoretical way to *keep* loads
> > down with VERP, by it's very nature.
>
> External IO, yes, disk IO, no. QMail all
On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:44:07 -0800
Peter C Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It also unloads the disk. The wire is rarely where you need to
> save time. I've seen a single mailhost with over a million
> messages queued empty out overnight over a t1. The biggest delays
> had nothing to do wit
On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:37:36 -0500
Jay R Ashworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't see that there *is* any theoretical way to *keep* loads
> down with VERP, by it's very nature.
External IO, yes, disk IO, no. QMail allows you to initiate a
single spool file with a list of addresses to VERP
On 12/6/01 10:33 AM, "Peter C. Norton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> around). I've done some noodling on doing something like this, and if you do
>> it right (it's a fair amount of work), you can really do some fun stuff,
>> because you're literally writing the message on the fly out the wire.
>
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:22:29AM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> I said [ that is, "Peter C. Norton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> > So, to speculate, a sensible MTA puts metadata in a seperate file.
>
> > The re-writing would be done on the way out to the remote host, and it would
> > be pretty che
On 12/6/01 9:44 AM, "Peter C. Norton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> At the expense of loading the wire, the MTA, *and* the MLM.
>>
>> How big are your lists, Chuq? :-)
>
> Again, I don't think the wire is usually an issue.
It is on my machine, but you don't want to know how much work we've do
On 12/6/01 8:48 AM, "Jay R. Ashworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At the expense of loading the wire, the MTA, *and* the MLM.
>
> How big are your lists, Chuq? :-)
Last time I looked my mailman-system delivers about 12 million pieces of
email a week, more or less. My big list server is custom
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:48:50AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > > With VERP, I have to send it 100 times.
> >
> > Unless the MTA does the VERP for you,
>
> Well, see, here's the thing. That *still* doesn't unload the *wire*,
> just the MLM.
It also unloads the disk. The wire is rarely wh
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 08:45:38AM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> > If I'm sending 100 copies to @aol.com, without VERP, I send the message
> > once.
>
> Not true. You send it 100/SMTP_MAX_RCPTS times (rounded up, of course). So
> if your SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is set to ten, you send it ten times.
Ri
On 12/6/01 8:03 AM, "Jay R. Ashworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I'm sending 100 copies to @aol.com, without VERP, I send the message
> once.
Not true. You send it 100/SMTP_MAX_RCPTS times (rounded up, of course). So
if your SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is set to ten, you send it ten times.
> With VERP,
* "Peter C. Norton"
| The only way to make the load a non-issue is to support VERPs in the MTA. I
| know qmail and courier support this. I wish that more MTA's did. Does
| anyone know if postfix, exim, or sendmail expect to support VERPs?
After a quick googling, it seems like Postfix support
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 08:00:18AM -0800, Peter C. Norton wrote:
> The only way to make the load a non-issue is to support VERPs in the MTA. I
> know qmail and courier support this. I wish that more MTA's did. Does
> anyone know if postfix, exim, or sendmail expect to support VERPs?
Exim will
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 08:00:18AM -0800, Peter C. Norton wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:37:36AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 11:17:08PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
> > > The problem isn't making them work with any MTA -- that's actually
> > > fairly trivial. The
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:37:36AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 11:17:08PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
> > The problem isn't making them work with any MTA -- that's actually
> > fairly trivial. The problem is keeping IO loads on the host
> > reasonable with VERP with any
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 11:17:08PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
> The problem isn't making them work with any MTA -- that's actually
> fairly trivial. The problem is keeping IO loads on the host
> reasonable with VERP with any MTA which is quite difficult.
I don't see that there *is* any theoretic
On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 23:02:01 -0800
Peter C Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a feeling that VERPs can be implemented in a way that they
> can work on any MTA.
The problem isn't making them work with any MTA -- that's actually
fairly trivial. The problem is keeping IO loads on the host
I haven't looked at it, but I do wish I could play with it and perhaps try
out a VERP implementation. Qmail, courier, and postfix all give the ability
to send messages with VERPs and it would be nice if that feature could be
used. On a relatively small list (a few hundred subscribers) that I've
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 11:56:28PM -0500, Bob Puff@NLE wrote:
> Wow, MM's 2.0.x bouncer REALLY needs fixing. I just saw it delete someone on the
>-second- bounce.. the first was back early in November, and the second one was
>yesterday. Just nuked him at the second bounce!
>
Yeah, it's ailin
Wow, MM's 2.0.x bouncer REALLY needs fixing. I just saw it delete someone on the
-second- bounce.. the first was back early in November, and the second one was
yesterday. Just nuked him at the second bounce!
Has anyone looked at that code that I posted a week or so ago? See any holes in it?
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