Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brad Knowles writes: > However, I am starting to wonder if this kind of stuff going away > is not part of an overall effort to dumb-down OS X so that it can > be unified with iOS. Could be, but in that case I would expect that their strategy is to completely eliminate server support, and try t

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Brad Knowles
On Aug 20, 2012, at 10:56 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >> More importantly, it would be much less difficult for us to support >> that part of the community, which would help reduce the support >> burden that Apple has to maintain. > > C'mon, Brad, it's *annoying* to have to support that part o

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brad Knowles writes: > On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > >> Which is probably why they are so very violently opposed to having > >> any GPL-encumbered code anywhere in the company. > > > > GCC? gdb? binutils? Make? CUPS? Mailman? > > Gcc & gdb are gone --

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brad Knowles writes: > More importantly, it would be much less difficult for us to support > that part of the community, which would help reduce the support > burden that Apple has to maintain. C'mon, Brad, it's *annoying* to have to support that part of the community, but it's never been diff

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Brad Knowles
On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >> Which is probably why they are so very violently opposed to having >> any GPL-encumbered code anywhere in the company. > > GCC? gdb? binutils? Make? CUPS? Mailman? And that's just the > applications I know of in the Mac OS X distri

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Mark Sapiro
David Dodell wrote: > >(1) First issue is cosmetic.At the bottom of each administrative page, >mailman does not display the icons which I see on ever other mailman website >... basically the mailman / python logos. Not a real big deal, besides the >cosmetic irk. I've checked the docs, fo

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brad Knowles writes: > > Doesn't their failure to do so violate the GPL? > > In this respect, I believe that they are probably in violation of > the spirit of the GPL, but perhaps not in the letter of the law. RMS is adamantly opposed to that interpretation of the "spirit of the GPL," and ha

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Lindsay Haisley
On Mon, 2012-08-20 at 21:39 +0300, Geoff Shang wrote: > On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Brad Knowles wrote: > > > I've got a copy of Mountain Lion server (it's only $20), and the code in > > question is Python, so it has to be shipped as source. So, if we want > > their changes, it's easy enough to get th

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Geoff Shang
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Brad Knowles wrote: I've got a copy of Mountain Lion server (it's only $20), and the code in question is Python, so it has to be shipped as source. So, if we want their changes, it's easy enough to get them. Actually, it doesn't have to be shipped as source. They could

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Brad Knowles
On Aug 20, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > It's failure to provide source code to paying customers (even if the > price was zero) that violates the GPL. If one of us is willing to buy > a server system and demand source code, they either cough up or they > suffer a rerun of the O

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Brad Knowles
On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > My guess is that they don't put their top-flight people on either server > development or server support. I believe that they do have high quality people working on the development side, I think the issue is more on the support side. And th

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lindsay Haisley writes: > > but if they're going to make modifications to it, they need to share > > those modifications back with us > > Doesn't their failure to do so violate the GPL? No. The GPL requires that you grant certain rights to use of your code to downstream recipients, not that

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Lindsay Haisley
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 22:33 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote: > Regretfully, the Server team at Apple is well known for ignoring > feedback and input from anyone else, especially anyone else in the > company. My guess is that they don't put their top-flight people on either server development or server s

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-20 Thread Matthias Schmidt
Am 20.08.2012 um 12:33 schrieb Brad Knowles: > On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > >> There are lots of mailing lists available. Mailman is only one of them. >> Apple no doubt supports _a_ mailing list, but as Apple Enterprise >> Support says, one can seldom expect support fr

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-19 Thread Brad Knowles
On Aug 19, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > There are lots of mailing lists available. Mailman is only one of them. > Apple no doubt supports _a_ mailing list, but as Apple Enterprise > Support says, one can seldom expect support from a proprietary software > vendor for software which

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-19 Thread Lindsay Haisley
On Sun, 2012-08-19 at 12:22 +0900, Matthias Schmidt wrote: > Am 13.08.2012 um 00:25 schrieb David Dodell: > > > This list is my last hope on getting my problems fixed. > > > > I am running OSX Lion (not Mountain Lion). Mailman was part of > > the default installation. > > > > I have two iss

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-19 Thread Matthias Schmidt
Am 13.08.2012 um 00:25 schrieb David Dodell: > This list is my last hope on getting my problems fixed. > > I am running OSX Lion (not Mountain Lion). Mailman was part of the > default installation. > > I have two issues which I have gotten absolutely no help from Apple > Enterprise Suppo

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-19 Thread Matthias Schmidt
Am 20.08.2012 um 01:00 schrieb David Dodell: >> where is apache looking for the icons. >> I think I read on the OS X Server List that the icons are on a different >> place than they should be. > > > This problem has been fixed. Strangely enough, found where apache was > looking for the icon

[Mailman-Users] Mailman Problems under OSX Lion

2012-08-18 Thread David Dodell
This list is my last hope on getting my problems fixed. I am running OSX Lion (not Mountain Lion). Mailman was part of the default installation. I have two issues which I have gotten absolutely no help from Apple Enterprise Support ... basic answer, we don't support open source software an