The previous post from "Green Left Parramatta" (on the marxism list) showed that the DSP contradicts itself. In the case of the occupation of East Timor, one of the gains is that "East Timor will be allowed to become formally independant and the East Timorese will be able to choose their own government and policies...." How touching that the DSP believes that the Aussie army et al will alow them such complete democratic rights. Obviously the best solution to put forward then is that Imperialist armies occupy the whole planet- then we will all get "our own governments and policies". As strange as this notion is, it has a complete contradiction inside the DSP itself- their line on Kosovo. Forgetting for a moment that I don't believe Kosovo was in even the same hemisphere as East Timor as far as oppressed nations are concerned, the line was that the war unleashed by NATO was designed to halt true independance for the KLA led insurgents. Now, considering that the DSP likens both Milosevic and Suharto to pretty much the same thing, both are "servants and collaborators with Imperialism", etc, there is a mite of a problem here. Again, I will forget how strange a notion it is that Milosevic's Yugoslavia is in the same camp as Indonesia. This "explanation" of the East Timor sitation begs the following set up: (Purely because I would like to reinterate my distance from the line on Kosovo, I do it now..) 1. The DSP has us believe that the KLA and Falintil are both leaders of genuine national liberational movements. 2. The DSP has told us that the governments of Yugoslavia and Indonesia are both out to once and for all crush these movements. 3. The DSP has expressed how important it is to oppose military intervention on the part of Imperialism in Yugoslavia, but not to oppose "peacekeepers" (read- military intervention) in East Timor. The occupation of Kosovo (despite the "reverse" ethnic cleansing) has produced a de-facto seperate state for the Kosovars. We are told that the war was to stop a "truly independant" Kosovo from emerging. That the KLA were underway in overthrowing the horrid Yugoslav state and about to set up a new republic. The current "peace" is an occupation that is designed to hold back real independance from the virtuous Kosovars (ie-the KLA!). So, in this case we have administrators and others who are working with/for the KLA but no matter- this is simply not good enough. This has been the line, with my embellishments, of course. The point they raise over and over again was that the Imperialists will never allow true independance, even if they hand it over on paper. Even if they stop "ethnic cleansing", it is never permissable to have Imperialism sticking its nose in the affairs of other countries/nations. Despite the fact that we were all treated to watching KLA representatives nighty denounce the "Totalitarian Stalinist regime" of Milosevic and expressing that the bombing must continue, we were told that this was not enough, the KLA didn't know what they were getting into, was the inferrance. Then we have East Timor, a situation where there was a campaign of "ethnic cleansing" of a truly brutal and massive scale. For the time being, the idea of Imperialist armies being worse than the problems they profess to solve has been tossed out. As well, now they have gone one step further and stated as I reposted at the top of the post, that within the Imperialist occupied territory indeed true democracy (of a bourgeois type) can blossom. That formal independane and choosing the course of history for the East Timorese themselves can now begin. That, sometimes, in fact IT IS permissable to have a little faith in the Imperialists ability to work out better arrangements for oppressed peoples than previously existed. How strange, I feel, that in the first case the DSP demanded the arming of the KLA, but in this case the idea of arming the East Timorese independance movement is not a worthwhile call. I wonder since we are now in the habit of making seperate demands of Imperialism other than to get out, we cannot arm this movement, but it would be good to do it in Kosovo. Perhaps it is not a loss of Marxism, but rather a loss of confidence that is at work here. It seems as if giving advice on how to live up to "humanitarian" pretensions is the order of the day for the DSP. In all countries that are under the weight of CNN and the like, we get handed different issues, and then we are given two or three different frameworks for what the debate will be. I could use the word "opportunism", but that would imply that this is something deliberately being done on the part of our comrades in Australia. Rather, I fear what is going on is that the CC no longer believes in the original premises of Marxism, without even recognizing their own doubts. The frameworks that are posed by CNN are taken at face value by the DSP these days, so the positions they take are merely the logical final outcome of trying to piece together the most leftward of all options. It is also a way to participate in mass rallies within Imperialist countries and not end up just shrieking at them about "compromise", etc. Unfortunately, DSP comrades, this strategy, conscious or otherwise, is something we are all too familiar with. It is the slow watering down of true revolutionary thinking, done in the name of building the mass movement/party. It is why all social democratic parties are doomed to just be "also rans". It is how we end up "defending the motherland" in times of conflict. It is the death knell of true, fighting revolutionary spirit- the one designed to build a new revolutionary world- not the one where we take credit for accomplishing the great feat of "forcing" imperialism to tame the nasty savages. Macdonald *************************** How many times have I wondered if it really possible to forge links with a mass of people when one has never had strong feelings for anyone, not even one's own parents; if it is possible to have a collectivity when one has not been deeply loved oneself by individual human creatures. Hasn't this had some effect on my life as a militant- has it not tended to make me sterile and reduce my quality as a revolutionary by making everything a matter of pure intellect, of pure mathematical calculation? ---Antonio Gramsci, 1926. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- from list [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---