As an aside (kinda) I'm a big fan of the Art of Manliness Podcast and this
recent one might be of some interest:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/coddling-of-the-american-mind-lukianoff-interview/
Podcast #440: The 3 Great Untruths That Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure
-Curt
On Tuesday, September 18, 2018, 5:47:28 PM EDT, G Mann via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
For the record, my initial comment was meant to be sarcastic, sort of.
I come from a time when men came to blows over words or acts. Overall, it
seems now, that era was a more polite society than the rampant passive
aggressive kind of "problem resolution" I so often see today. Verbal
bullies could expect a smack in the kisser, and mostly held their counsel
with some mutual respect.
IMHO, the era of enduring butt hurt over "social insult" has now replaced
the earlier society of "Your butt has been kicked and you know why your
butt now hurts."
Both are examples of just how inept humans are at living in large groups.
And, it's not a perfect world or is it ever likely to be.
On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> I'm for a middle ground somewhere between Grant and Andrew on this. I got
> into my last fistfight (with my older brother) when I was about 16. I was
> about to drop him headfirst onto a ceramic tile floor when I saw he was
> bleeding from a cut over his eye, felt awful, and set him down...then took
> him to the doctor for stitches. Some furniture was damaged during that
> event. Mom was not happy. I have been pretty good since then avoiding
> fights, but being confident that I could defend myself if the fight could
> not be avoided. On the job I developed a reputation for being able to talk
> people down. Being armed helps a bit with that.
>
> As a father of a couple of boys, I have been bothered when one of them
> would get in trouble for defending himself when bullied at school. I taught
> them "Violence is NEVER a good solution, but sometimes the ONLY solution."
> My advice was to avoid a fight, but when that was no longer an option, to
> punch the bully in the nose as hard as possible to end the fight. So one
> day when Matt was in 7th. grade there was a substitute bus driver who was
> unaware that the bully was not allowed to sit near Matt. He started, Matt
> followed the advice but hit a little low. He did cause some highly
> satisfactory bleeding, but also broke the kid's braces. Nonetheless he was
> rewarded with a trip to his favorite donut shop.
>
> I advocated hard for him at the school, so the only penalty was being
> banned from the school bus for a week or 2. I don't see why a child should
> not be able to defend himself when the adults are unable to. Punishing the
> defender as well as the instigator seems wrong to me.
>
> But IMO real men should be able to settle differences without combat.
> Full-size men can do permanent damage if it gets to that stage.
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Strasfogel via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 12:51 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Social Justice LINUX?
>
> Gee, I don't miss those days at all. What's wrong with me?
>
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 2:57 PM G Mann via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Ahhhhhhhhh ... for the good old days, when you could insult some asshat
> > git, sling insults, go to the parking lot, draw blood, maybe break a
> nose,
> > scrape a knee, and either win or lose.
> >
> > For the day when men were men.
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 10:35 AM, Craig via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:24:56 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
> > > <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I haven't read these because my browser on this computer is old; I'll
> > > > need to switch to another computer to read them.
> > >
> > > I did find one I could read:
> > >
> > > https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/software/torvalds-takes-
> > > a-break-from-linux-dev/1/
> > >
> > > Linux kernel creator and maintainer Linus Torvalds has apologised for
> his
> > > oft irascible attitude when faced with what he believes to be a
> departure
> > > from the ideals of Linux development, and has announced both a code of
> > > conduct for the project and his temporary departure from active
> > > involvement.
> > >
> > > When Linus Torvalds announced the Linux project back in 1991, on a
> > > newsgroup for the Minix operating system, it came with a promise he
> > > proved unable to keep: 'I'm doing a (free) operating system,' he wrote,
> > > 'just a hobby, won't be big and professional like GNU'. That 'hobby'
> > > operating system now powers everything from routers and switches
> through
> > > to supercomputers, and while its impact on the desktop has been in
> > > single-digit percentages as it struggled to convince people to the
> > > benefits of moving away from Microsoft's Windows, it accounts for
> around
> > > 97 percent of the web servers powering the most popular domains in the
> > > world and 100 percent of the top 500 supercomputers in the world. Linux
> > > is big business, with billions of dollars on the line - but, Torvalds
> > > admits, his approach hasn't always echoed the shift from its origins
> as a
> > > personal hobby project.
> > >
> > > 'I am not an emotionally empathetic kind of person and that probably
> > > doesn't come as a big surprise to anybody. Least of all me. The fact
> that
> > > I then misread people and don't realise (for years) how badly I've
> judged
> > > a situation and contributed to an unprofessional environment is not
> > > good,' Torvalds writes in an announcement to the Linux Kernel Mailing
> > > List (LKML). 'This week people in our community confronted me about my
> > > lifetime of not understanding emotions. My flippant attacks in emails
> > > have been both unprofessional and uncalled for. Especially at times
> when
> > > I made it personal. In my quest for a better patch, this made sense to
> > > me. I know now this was not OK and I am truly sorry.
> > >
> > > 'The above is basically a long-winded way to get to the somewhat
> painful
> > > personal admission that hey, I need to change some of my behaviour,
> and I
> > > want to apologise to the people that my personal behaviour hurt and
> > > possibly drove away from kernel development entirely.'
> > >
> > > That Torvalds' attitude can cause problems for the wider community
> should
> > > not come as a surprise: The image for this articles comes from a
> > > presentation in which Torvalds literally said 'fuck you' to Linux
> > > Foundation member company Nvidia, while perceived transgressions to the
> > > Linux kernel development process - in particular from people who
> Torvalds
> > > believe should know better - frequently receive multi-paragraph
> > > foul-mouthed tirades from the project lead.
> > >
> > > Torvalds' solution is bipartite: The introduction of a code of conduct,
> > > to which he himself will be held; and a break from active Linux kernel
> > > development, with second-in-command Greg Kroah-Hartman taking over in
> > > Torvalds' absence. 'This is not some kind of "I'm burnt out, I need to
> > > just go away" break,' Torvalds claims. 'I'm not feeling like I don't
> want
> > > to continue maintaining Linux. Quite the reverse. I very much do want
> to
> > > continue to do this project that I've been working on for almost three
> > > decades. This is more like the time I got out of kernel development
> for a
> > > while because I needed to write a little tool called "git". I need to
> > > take a break to get help on how to behave differently and fix some
> issues
> > > in my tooling and workflow.
> > >
> > > 'And yes, some of it might be "just" tooling. Maybe I can get an email
> > > filter in place so at when I send email with curse-words, they just
> won't
> > > go out. Because hey, I'm a big believer in tools, and at least _some_
> > > problems going forward might be improved with simple automation. I know
> > > when I really look "myself in the mirror" it will be clear it's not the
> > > only change that has to happen, but hey... You can send me suggestions
> in
> > > email.'
> > >
> > > Torvalds' full email, plus the discussion that followed, can be found
> on
> > > the Linux Kernel Mailing List at https://lwn.net/Articles/764901/ .
> > >
> > > _______________________________________
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> _______________________________________
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
_______________________________________
http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
_______________________________________
http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
