Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-11 Thread Redghost
Did the preview and was overwhelmed. There is just way too much stuff that somebody needs. The engines were looking really good. Used a bit, but clean enough. A few old DOD genset. I suspect with the weather we have today, most of the metal bits will go for scrap prices. On Jan 8, 2007,

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-09 Thread Jim Cathey
That _is_ full of woody goodness! Maybe that's mourning wood, since I ain't-a gonna get to go. -- Jim

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-09 Thread Craig McCluskey
On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 23:33:19 -0500 Mitch Haley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Craig McCluskey wrote: > > > > Not sure what you mean by this phrase ... > > If this were the "banned" list I'd spell it out for you. Oh.

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-09 Thread Mitch Haley
Craig McCluskey wrote: > > Not sure what you mean by this phrase ... If this were the "banned" list I'd spell it out for you.

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-09 Thread Craig McCluskey
On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:38:16 -0800 Redghost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > There are a number of Lister motors available at this upcoming auction. > That and a few 200-300amp gen sets. You can even bid live online. > For those trapped at a desk. > > I am going to preview the site Tuesday

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread Redghost
PacindustrialCat.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document There are a number of Lister motors available at this upcoming auction. That and a few 200-300amp gen sets. You can even bid live online. For those trapped at a desk. I am going to preview the site Tuesday. A two day affair to get al

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread John M McIntosh
On Jan 7, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: Lister cycle engines are low compression, dirty, and make lots of smoke along with burning quite a bit of fuel for the output generated. My understanding is that they are actually quite fuel-efficient, at least as used for modest amounts of back

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread Jim Cathey
Lister cycle engines are low compression, dirty, and make lots of smoke along with burning quite a bit of fuel for the output generated. My understanding is that they are actually quite fuel-efficient, at least as used for modest amounts of backup power. And they run forever. -- Jim

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread Peter Frederick
Lister cycle engines are low compression, dirty, and make lots of smoke along with burning quite a bit of fuel for the output generated. Simple to make and repair, which is why they are in use in the third world, but very much an environmental problem. Peter

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread Chris Kueny
That makes sense from a safety standpoint, and is part of the barrier to entry. Chris Kueny ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 78 Chevy Custom deluxe '85 300TD '02 Subaru Outback You are also required to use an approved disconnect that uncouples your generator if the grid power fails. They are expensive. You

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread dave walton
Here in Ohio, the utility companies are only required to pay the wholesale rate if you generate excess and run the meter backwards (2-3cents per kwh). You are also required to use an approved disconnect that uncouples your generator if the grid power fails. They are expensive. You cannot use a sim

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread John M McIntosh
The USA EPA changed the rules for small engines in January 2007. It's possible many engines made outside of the USA can no longer be imported. Testing and modifications of course takes time and $, also maybe the supplier couldn't careless about selling small engines into the USA anymore. Cana

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-08 Thread Chris Kueny
My last commercial power bill had me paying 9.349 cents/kwh. Tell me more about the Lister debate...when I can finally get one, I don't want to be shut out. Chris Kueny ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 78 Chevy Custom deluxe '85 300TD '02 Subaru Outback Otherwise here with electricity at 6.33 cents a

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread John M McIntosh
On Jan 7, 2007, at 9:53 AM, Chris Kueny wrote: The Lister engines available from India today use no spark. ... See www.utterpower.comfor all the details. Chris K Cayce, SC After clocking 60 hours of gas generator use in dec here in the pacific NW I look at the various generator option

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Peter Frederick
On high compression diesels (above 19:1), propane can ignite BEFORE the fuel is injected if the mixture is rich enough to be burnable. I would not recommend propane "fumigation" on anything with a compression ratio above 16:1 nor under high load with a turbocharger running, the risk of prematu

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread David Brodbeck
Peter Frederick wrote: > Diesels WILL run with a fuel/air mix, but there is no control over the > ignition timing that way. I know at least one person who had a VW > diesel get return holes in the head plugged up, and when the oil filled > the valve cover and spilled over into the intake on the

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread OK Don
The Jacobs R755 that was in Dad's Cessna 195 had two plugs per cylinder. Each set of plugs were fired by a seperate magnito - and they were timed about two degrees apart, IIRC. The left mag at 6 degrees BTDC, and the right mag at 8 degrees BTDC, for example. I don't remember the exact specs. Durin

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Chris Kueny
If I were Kaleb, I would preface this with 'Bzzzt, wrong.' But I am not so I won't. The Lister engines available from India today use no spark. You open a valve to relieve compression, turn the heavy flywheel until you get some stored inertial energy, close the valve and open the fuel start

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Peter Frederick
That I do not know -- I would GUESS that the most ignitable portion of the fuel/air mix is in different locations in the cylinder under different operating condition, and low power output/miss is a result with a single plug. There might also be a quench area that prevents proper flame propagat

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Peter Frederick
Ah, but there is no fuel in the cylinder until the injection pump "fires" it in! This is the secret of diesels, and the basis of R. Diesels patents. Lister cylcle engines use compression ignition by atomizing diesel fuel into the air and igniting it by compression of the mixture AND a spark,

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Jim Cathey
What amazes me is how diesel is refined precisely so a pre-determined ignition can be obtained allowing diesel to be used on everything from a Peterbuilt to a Isuzu Diesel. But I guess all diesels must operate at/near the same pressures. Ha! Precise refining? How about thinly-strained dino

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread LarryT
OTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation Proper combustion in a spark ignition engine is for the spark to ignite the air/fuel mixture at the correct time for peak pressure to occur

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread LarryT
Thanks Royce, You wrote:> Detonation to me always meant: the fuel is compressed as the

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Royce Engler
: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation Proper combustion in a spark ignition engine is for the spark to ignite the air/fuel mixture at the correct time for peak pressure to occur a few degrees after TDC, and for

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Peter Frederick
Proper combustion in a spark ignition engine is for the spark to ignite the air/fuel mixture at the correct time for peak pressure to occur a few degrees after TDC, and for the fuel mixture to burn at the correct rate for the flame front to consume the vast majority of the fuel before being que

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Jim Cathey
space. Detonation occurs when the fuel air mixture "explodes"...i.e. burns in multiple places at the same time. This can happen when the fuel mixture contains components that ignite much like a diesel..i.e. it reaches a combustion temperature and pressure and "cooks off". When that happens,

Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....

2007-01-07 Thread Royce Engler
Larry said... You wrote about octane and detonation: <> Hi Royce, Is that your way of saying the higher octane detonates later and therefore closer to the time when the piston reaches TDC - or almost? - I'm assuming TDC is the best place to ignite the mixture for max HP and other ignition poi