Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>>http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar >>>didn't list the hCalendar >>> fields, let alone say which are mandatory and which are optional! >hCalendar issues may be added to this page: > > http://microfo

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Colin Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>> I would suggest editing the page yourself. >> >> I admire your naive optimism (or should that be "your sense of >> humour"?): >> >> >er/006396.html >

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 11/14/06 1:33 PM, "Colin Barrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2006, at 9:32 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote: > >> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Colin >> Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> >> I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of >> hCalendar; and >> r

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On Nov 14, 2006, at 9:32 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Colin Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and referred her to: http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar She was baffled; not lest because,

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Colin Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and referred her to: http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar She was baffled; not lest because, though the page had a

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On Nov 13, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and referred her to:

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > >>I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and >>referred her to: >> >>http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar >> >>

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> It's now two weeks since I wrote the above, and nothing has changed. > >Seems like a lot has changed to me. Lots of people are working on the wiki. You snipped my quote of my original post: >>>I've just been introducing

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

It's now two weeks since I wrote the above, and nothing has changed. Seems like a lot has changed to me. Lots of people are working on the wiki. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailma

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and >referred her to: > >http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar > >She was baffled; not lest because, though the page had a treatise on >"Semantic XH

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:49 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I'm coming to believe that there are some very different assumed goals &g

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I'm coming to believe that there are some very different assumed goals >& use-cases among the people in discussions (not because of anything >specific, just a feeling I have.) Without clarifying these, I think >we'll be at

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

d probably have started a new thread on this...? -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:08 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! Mike, But

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:24 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! > The point is there isn't necessarily one for a new spec. Until someone > builds one. No

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06 4:54 PM, "Mike Schinkel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Opps, you caught my lack of meticulousness! No problem at all Mike. Just want to clear that up. ;) >>> Thanks for this feedback Mike - you make very good points. > > Thanks in return. It is nice to know when one's efforts are ap

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

nt generally available on the wiki? Again, same comment... And was this for me, or everyone? -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:24 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hC

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

TECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tantek Ç elik Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:13 PM To: microformats-discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! On 10/18/06 4:04 PM, "Mike Schinkel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My point was simply to

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> See my reply to the same post, by Justin Thorp, to which you were >> replying. > >There was no content in that post. Try a working mail client, then. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards:

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Justin: Very good organization! JMTCW. -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin Thorp Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:57 PM To: microformats-discuss@microformats.org Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

The point is there isn't necessarily one for a new spec. Until someone builds one. No worries here. I'm commited to doing this. See my todo list. Is there any that are missing? So my point was I wouldn't see a generators/creators as the entry point for a microformat, that's all. Ah, ok. S

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

iginal Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Mabbett Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:40 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTEC

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06 4:04 PM, "Mike Schinkel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My point was simply to be careful not to overwhelm the user with text on a > intro page as it has been proven people scan web pages instead of reading > them[1]. Less will be more here. Justin presents this[2] as an example, but >

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

> >I'm not sure this helps. I'm sure it does. heh >This essentially washes out the picture of two types of users. Perhaps; though it chiefly avoids the useless labelling of them. Or do you have evidence that "veteran experts" never look for new things, or "bleeding edge adapters" never fulfi

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:06 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! On 10/18/06,

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> You forgot: > >Actually, I was summarizing and synthesizing, not forgetting. The "you" was collective. >>* Veteran Experts >> * Looking for new things >> * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newn

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

, October 18, 2006 1:00 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! Justin, Would you mind visiting <http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do#Information_Architecture> and adding your support? While we're on the subject of newbies, if they first

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You forgot: Actually, I was summarizing and synthesizing, not forgetting. * Veteran Experts * Looking for new things * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newness * uF's seem new and cool? * Probably little expo

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >* Bleeding Edge Adopters > * Looking for new things > * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newness > * uF's seem new and cool? > * Probably little exposure to uF (did they see it mentioned in a >blog

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >the 50 year old web systems programmer who may be slow to adopting >(stubborn) new technologies but was told by his boss he has to look at >the business applications of adopting microformats. There's nothing like a bit of ag

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I would expect that a lot of newbies start off hearing about >microformats on tutorials [...] >They get linked to the spec and then get offly confused. Not least, as I have soda previously, because what is labelled as the sp

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>> I don't think anyone has said that. I certainly don't think people should >be encouraged to begin authoring before first understanding what the >are nad are not "allowed" to do (unless by "authoring" you mean "fill >in a

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Justin, Great input. Let me see if I can summarize it in bullet form: * Bleeding Edge Adopters * Looking for new things * Might be looking/adopting things for the sake of coolness/newness * uF's seem new and cool? * Probably little exposure to uF (did they see it mentioned in a blog, sea

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/18/06, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A form would be nice, but it takes time to develop and we can't expect they will be developed before people are interested. Actually this is already done. There are generators/creators/___-o-matics or whatever the current term is for hRevie

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Ben, I will try and get to the IA page tonite and see if I can add some comments and thoughts. I think the people reading the articles about microformats and jumping into the spec cold are the early adoptor web developers. My uneducated opinion is that microformats is a fairly new movement.

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

alertbox/9710a.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Mabbett Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:48 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mik

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Justin, Would you mind visiting and adding your support? While we're on the subject of newbies, if they first hear about microformats from the sources you mentioned, what kind of people are they? Are they graphic designers? Web develo

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

I really like this idea. What if the landing page for the microformat wasn't the spec but it was some warm and fuzzy intro for newbies? It could then link to the spec for those that were interested to it. A good example of this would be the W3C WAI's intro for WCAG that they give you before y

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Schinkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >others have >said that they (think newbies would be) interested in authoring, not the >specification and I concur. I don't think anyone has said that. I certainly don't think people should be encouraged to begin authoring b

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >* Show me a demo. >* Create an hCard Between those two should come the formal specification. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: Free Our Data:

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Thanks for the prompt response; apologies if my own aren't so prompt. None needed. Such is e-mail! >> There also seems to be a presumption that "newbies" will initially be >> interested in "authoring", that is almost cert

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

For myself, I mostly just skip to the 'examples' section... but that's because I learn by reading code better than reading english ;) On 10/16/06, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think the pages the way they are presented now are a bit hard to process and understand. I remember for m

Re: Reorganizing the Wiki is Fun for Everyone (Was: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!)

On 10/16/06, Scott Reynen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd love to see Andy, Phae, Scott, Tantek, and anyone else interested > in improving the wiki start to use the to-do list so I can align my > organizational thoughts with everyone. Perhaps we can even run some > kind of virtual card sort to

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Thanks. I subscribed to the page. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:28 AM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! Mike, this is great. I

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! Mike, Thanks for you suggestion. I believe this is exactly what cgriego and Andy and I have just suggested. Would you mind confiming this on the to-do page under my name [1]? If it somehow differs from the sug

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

ED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:12 AM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! Mike, Thanks for you suggestion. I believe this is exactly what cgriego and Andy and I have just suggested. Would you mind confiming t

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

-Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 5:29 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included! On 10/16/06, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrot

RE: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

tempt to discover and extract which sub pages are needed for most/all microformats. Hope this is useful... -Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin West Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 5:29 PM To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [u

Re: Reorganizing the Wiki is Fun for Everyone (Was: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!)

* http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do#Information_Architecture - Now exists to collect suggestions for organization, structure, and usability of the content we make available. * http://microformats.org/wiki/wiki-feedback - Now exists to collect instances and accounts of people having trouble using

Reorganizing the Wiki is Fun for Everyone (Was: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!)

On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Benjamin West wrote: I'd love to see Andy, Phae, Scott, Tantek, and anyone else interested in improving the wiki start to use the to-do list so I can align my organizational thoughts with everyone. Perhaps we can even run some kind of virtual card sort to help estab

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/16/06, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ben, I really like your idea of giving the wiki a better sense of organization. Justin, thanks, but this isn't my idea. Many others have expressed their ideas and desires as well. Is it possible within MediaWiki to have some type of sideb

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Andy, Thanks for the prompt response; apologies if my own aren't so prompt. There also seems to be a presumption that "newbies" will initially be interested in "authoring", that is almost certainly fallacious, and at best unsupported by evidence. Ah, that's interesting. Mind if I quote you o

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Ben, I really like your idea of giving the wiki a better sense of organization. Is it possible within MediaWiki to have some type of sidebar navigation with this site organization on it? I think this would help users to better find the information that they are looking for. For example, I am a

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Benjamin West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >Quick Summary: >* Lots of interest in wiki improvement >* Work I've done >* Please Help! > >I've noticed there are lots of people interested in changing the wiki >in various ways. Perhaps it would help if can converge aroun

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >On 10/16/06 12:30 PM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> Imagine what would happen if everyone attempted to do so (or even just a >>> dozen people). There would be a lot of thrash, and worse still, the pages >>>

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

Quick Summary: * Lots of interest in wiki improvement * Work I've done * Please Help! I've noticed there are lots of people interested in changing the wiki in various ways. Perhaps it would help if can converge around some common goals to rally our work around. I don't think anyone has any obje

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >On 10/16/06 11:53 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> If you can be specific about *which* pages, and what about them are >>> hard to understand, that would be very helpful. >> >> Here's a hint: most people ne

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/16/06 12:30 PM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Imagine what would happen if everyone attempted to do so (or even just a >> dozen people). There would be a lot of thrash, and worse still, the pages >> that are stable and reliable would become less so to the readers of those >>

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>> and would ask that you please refrain from doing so single-handedly. >> >> I haven't dome anything "single-handedly". You quote me asking for >> contributions! > >And you have made excellent contributions. > >But asking fo

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/16/06 11:53 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> If you can be specific about *which* pages, and what about them are >> hard to understand, that would be very helpful. > > Here's a hint: most people new to hCalendar (some of them, it will > apparently come as a surprise to you,

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > Note also that I didn't >"rewrite a spec", I reordered the preamble to it and attempted to >clarify it. -- Andy Mabbett Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: Free Our

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > If you can be specific about *which* pages, and what about them are >hard to understand, that would be very helpful. Here's a hint: most people new to hCalendar (some of them, it will apparently come as a surprise to you, n

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/16/06 11:30 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes > >> On 10/16/06 10:38 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> >>> I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and >>>

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Justin Thorp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I think the pages the way they are presented now are a bit hard to >process and understand. I think they're an unreadable, inaccessible and arrogant mess. >Andy, I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labor. You'll ha

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tantek Çelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >On 10/16/06 10:38 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and >> referred her to: >> >> http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar >> >> She

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/16/06 10:49 AM, "Justin Thorp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think the pages the way they are presented now are a bit hard to process and > understand. Justin, your feedback on this is greatly valued. If you can be specific about *which* pages, and what about them are hard to understand,

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

I think the pages the way they are presented now are a bit hard to process and understand. I remember for me it took some time to initally dig through the specification to find what I was actually looking for. I just wanted to figure out how to write an hCard. Andy, I look forward to seeing t

Re: [uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

On 10/16/06 10:38 AM, "Andy Mabbett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and > referred her to: > > http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar > > She was baffled; not lest because, though the page had a treatise on > "Semantic XH

[uf-discuss] hCalendar spec- no specification included!

I've just been introducing a colleague to the concept of hCalendar; and referred her to: http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar She was baffled; not lest because, though the page had a treatise on "Semantic XHTML Design Principles", it didn't list the hCalendar fields, let alone say whic