Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Gunther Birznieks
At 10:25 AM 4/28/00 +0100, Matt Sergeant wrote: >On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Marc Slemko wrote: > > > On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Matt Sergeant wrote: > > > > > Unfortunately there's also a browser bug to contend with. They treat \x8b > > > (I think that's the right code) as < and there's a similar code for > >

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Matt Sergeant
On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Marc Slemko wrote: > On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Matt Sergeant wrote: > > > Unfortunately there's also a browser bug to contend with. They treat \x8b > > (I think that's the right code) as < and there's a similar code for > > >. Since most web developers are just doing s/ > attacks

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Marc Slemko
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Matt Sergeant wrote: > Unfortunately there's also a browser bug to contend with. They treat \x8b > (I think that's the right code) as < and there's a similar code for > >. Since most web developers are just doing s/ attacks based on character sets like this. Sad, but true. Ev

RE: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Matt Sergeant
On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Gerald Richter wrote: > > > > Gerald, what about Embperl, does it escape \x8b? > > > > No, there is no html escape for \x8b (and I guess the other one Matt > mentioned is \0x8d for >) I know, so Embperl will not escape it, but this > could be simply change by an entry in epc

RE: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Gerald Richter
> > Gerald, what about Embperl, does it escape \x8b? > No, there is no html escape for \x8b (and I guess the other one Matt mentioned is \0x8d for >) I know, so Embperl will not escape it, but this could be simply change by an entry in epchar.c. Any suggestion to what this should be escaped? Then

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Dirk Lutzebaeck
Matt Sergeant writes: > Unfortunately there's also a browser bug to contend with. They treat \x8b > (I think that's the right code) as < and there's a similar code for > >. Since most web developers are just doing s/ attacks based on character sets like this. Sad, but true. Even our loved > C

RE: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Leon Brocard
Jeremy Howard wrote: > I'm interested in providing 'HTML email' support for my users > (like HotMail, Outlook Express, Eudora 4.0, etc provide), but > I'm very nervous about security. Essentially, providing HTML > email involves letting any arbitrary HTML get displayed by Apache... I've been

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-28 Thread Dirk Lutzebaeck
Matt Sergeant writes: > Unfortunately there's also a browser bug to contend with. They treat \x8b > (I think that's the right code) as < and there's a similar code for > >. Since most web developers are just doing s/ attacks based on character sets like this. Sad, but true. Even our loved > C

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Jeffrey W. Baker
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, John M Vinopal wrote: > I am a bad hacker and watching your line. I see cookies A and B go to you. > I set cookies A and B in my web browser. I am now you. You can try to > permute the cookies with IP# (breaks on proxies) or Browser type, but all > cookie based approaches

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread John M Vinopal
I am a bad hacker and watching your line. I see cookies A and B go to you. I set cookies A and B in my web browser. I am now you. You can try to permute the cookies with IP# (breaks on proxies) or Browser type, but all cookie based approaches believe in the value of something sent cleartext. O

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Matt Sergeant
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Vivek Khera wrote: > > "SC" == Steven Champeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > SC> developers and designers) for Webmonkey: > > SC> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/00/18/index3a.html > > SC> If you want to see what sort of stuff the XSS problem opens you up for, >

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Marc Slemko
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Vivek Khera wrote: > > "SC" == Steven Champeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > SC> developers and designers) for Webmonkey: > > SC> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/00/18/index3a.html > > SC> If you want to see what sort of stuff the XSS problem opens you up for, >

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Steven Champeon
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Vivek Khera wrote: > Why on earth would you take user input and output it verbatim to your > pages? Rule number 1 of developing a web site is to never trust the > user's input values. *Always* validate it against what you're > expecting. I guess someone had better tell the

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Vivek Khera
> "SC" == Steven Champeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: SC> developers and designers) for Webmonkey: SC> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/00/18/index3a.html SC> If you want to see what sort of stuff the XSS problem opens you up for, SC> just try appending ?tw=alert("aha!"); to the URL abo

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Steven Champeon
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Marc Slemko wrote: > > Can you be more specific about why you say that? If I set an encrypted, > > short-lived cookie upon validated authentication, why is that any less > > secure than any of the other approaches you mentioned? > > It isn't necessarily any "less secure", but

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Marc Slemko
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Nick Tonkin wrote: > On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Marc Slemko wrote: > > > Cookies are not secure and will never be secure. They may be "good > > enough", and you may not have much choice, but they are still simply not > > secure when you put everything together. > > Can you be mo

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Nick Tonkin
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Marc Slemko wrote: > Cookies are not secure and will never be secure. They may be "good > enough", and you may not have much choice, but they are still simply not > secure when you put everything together. Can you be more specific about why you say that? If I set an encrypt

Re: Security in displaying arbitrary HTML

2000-04-27 Thread Marc Slemko
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Jeremy Howard wrote: > I'm interested in providing 'HTML email' support for my users (like > HotMail, Outlook Express, Eudora 4.0, etc provide), but I'm very > nervous about security. Essentially, providing HTML email involves > letting any arbitrary HTML get displayed by Apa