There's some irony in the fact that through discord, I've come to know
better a few mopo'ers. Even with Andy, he and I settled our grudges
with one another yesterday, after thrashing each other a bit.
Sometimes, strong relationships are forged from the fires of
discontent and disagreement. So, for me, a lot of good has come from
my participation on this list.
Holiday
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: James Richard <jrl...@mediabearonline.com>
Date: March 24, 2010 2:44:01 PM EDT
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Time to Update the FAQ...and more
Reply-To: James Richard <jrl...@mediabearonline.com>
Scott,
Well thought-out points sensibly stated. It should be obvious from
my position over the last few days that I disagree with loosening up
the rules ("they're more like guidelines, really" -- Pirates of the
Carribean) to allow more off topic posts. Look, even with the
draconian rule against it in place, people still posted OT stuff all
along and lately it has got out of hand -- and virtually none of it
did anything to advance your laudable goal that it would make
"getting to know a fellow cyber-collector much easier when you can
share a little off-topic info now and then and makes a discussion
board become more like a group of friends who happen to share a
common interest."
In fact, most of the OT stuff has been getting in the way of that
goal.
But consider: since we've been getting so much OT with the rule in
place -- how much *more* will we get without the rule?
Then there's the feuding deterrent to consider: While it can happen,
it is far less likely people will slip into fussin' and feudin' with
each other in a thread that is on topic. It is most often the off-
topic thread that slips into a fight.
I know and sympathize with where you're at -- I've been running e-
mail lists on Yahoogroups since 1998 and you're absolutely right
that this hassle comes to all groups. And when the moderator tries
to do something about it, all kinds of unpleasant things often
happen. For trying to enforce simple civility and common courtesy on
one of my lists I was called all kinds of things -- "tin-horn
dictator" and "pitiful self-important prick" were among the more
complimentary. So I understand your desire to strike the right kind
of balance. But in truth, you have been doing exactly that all
along, which is why MOPO has had such a record-breaking run on the
internet.
That's why I don't think you should change your OT policy: With the
strong no-OT rule in place, you (and other members) always had that
to fall back on as a way of quickly damping down the OT abuse when
it became too much. Remove the no-OT notice and in the future when
you (or anyone) tries to dampen the frenzy down, they will
immediately be accused of "censorship" and far worse.
My conclusion: If the MOPO FAQ ain't broke, don't fix it.
As anecdotal evidence, I offer this: I'm sure you're very much aware
that the number of people subscribed to MOPO has dropped 25% from
the high of over 500 members a short while ago. What has changed to
cause so many people to sign off? As Rich, Bruce and Grey
demonstrate every week, there are more movie poster collectors than
ever. The only thing different about the last year or two has been
the ever-increasing number of OT posts with "no redeeming social
value".
P.S. As I'm sure you know, going to the "digest" version is not a
viable solution to OT posts flooding one's inbox -- not if someone
wants to remain an active member of a list. A digest filled with
mostly OT is long, boring, irritating and essentially impossible to
read -- digging out anything worthwhile out of it is more trouble
than simply scanning through the OT and hitting delete. And then, if
you do find something worth commenting on in the digest, there's no
easy way to do it without accidentally including the entire digest
in your reply.
-- JR
Scott Burns wrote:
Well I guess I need to update the MoPo FAQ....my words are coming
back to haunt me.
Some time ago I decided to allow MoPo to breathe a little by
permitting off-topic posts. I thought it would make the group a
little more human. I think it makes getting to know a fellow cyber-
collector much easier when you can share a little off-topic info
now and then and makes a discussion board become more like a group
of friends who happen to share a common interest.
No matter what direction MoPo takes there's always someone ready to
criticize. Like politics, it's a no-win situation. Stay strictly on-
topic and the list is accused of being boring. Go off-topic and
people complain about their inboxes filling up. (Easy solution? Use
the DIGEST version and get all the posts in a single e-mail).
The text from the FAQ that JR has so helpfully posted sounds harsh
because it was posted at a time when the list was in turmoil and in
danger of being destroyed. I don't want to relive the details, but
there had to be a set way of dealing with the bizarre shenanigans
and putting "rules" into the FAQ gave me something to use if I
needed to. MoPo survived, but the threatening tone of that section
of the FAQ remains.
I guess the on/off topic debate will forever plague MoPo. But as
list owner I have the final say and this week the wind is blowing
more towards allowing reasonable off-topic discussions--but please
put OT in the subject line. You may ask what "reasonable"
is....well that's up to me. Sorry, perk of being listowner.
More thoughts:
One really troubling thing I read this week was posted by fellow
discussion group operator Andy. He wrote, (in reply to Holiday):
"RE: censorship - I get more emails for censorship and having a
clean forum than againt it. Some members will only view and post
MPF for that reason alone.But your entitled to your opinion
obviously, In my eyes it's a point of view from a minority of
people on the grand scheme of things."
THAT'S SCARY. One thing I will NEVER be is FOR censorship. Makes my
skin crawl.
Another troubling thing was written by Bruce H:
"...I am so happy there is a "new breed" of poster collector that
you mostly find on allposterforum.com and not very much here. Many
of these collectors have hundreds or thousands of posters from the
past 30 years. They LOVE their collections, and they are buying
their OWN memories, not what other people tell them should be worth
collecting."
People on MoPo don't LOVE their collections? Bruce I think you're
taking a cheap shot here and being unfair to most people on MoPo.
There are (and always have been) some rather vocal/caustic/
outspoken/pompous/rude/selfish/greedy/sneaky/backstabbing people in
this hobby. Thankfully they aren't the majority. But like a hungry
mosquito, even one can make your life miserable. Whether its on an
internet discussion group on in the real world it doesn't matter.
Give All Poster Forum time. I've yet to see ANY internet discussion
group avoid drama. It comes to all. Sorry Holiday, your time will
sadly come.
Just ask Andy, Ari, Jon Warren, and Donnie of the old Style-
B....and everyone else who has ever run an on-line forum.
Just a few cents from your usually-quiet listowner.
Scott
From: MoPo List On Behalf Of James Richard
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] everybody back on topic, please!
Andy,
Yeah, it's nice to be easy going about the on-topic rule -- the
problem is it doesn't stop with the "occasional" off-topic message.
First, the message will often stand a thread of off-topic replies.
Worse, somebody on sees an off-topic thread thread going on and so
decides, since they have nothing to write on-topic at the moment,
to toss out another "interesting" off-topic tidbit... thats starts
another thread, etc. At some point somebody makes a crack about
somebody else in one of the 3 or 4 or 10 off-topic threads going on
and a feud breaks out...
...the next thing you know, I've got 50 emails a day coming into my
inbox from MOPO which have nothing to do with posters, films,
collecting or auctioning them.
Already your art-from-grain-of-sand post has spawned 3 off-topic
replies in the first 38 minutes.
I am reminding everybody that it is rule of this list and that
everybody needs get back on topic and stay that way -- at least for
while since the off-topic stuff has got so far out of hand of late.
Too many people are considering leaving MOPO because of all the
static, myself among them.
Look, there are literally a *billion* other places on the internet
to discuss Dinosaur Dung and all these other supposedly fascinating
things floating around on the internet -- but MOPO ain't supposed
to be one of them. The list owner, Scott Burns, has been very clear
about this over the years. Once again, from the end of section 1.2
of his MopoFAQ on www.Filmfan.com:
"There are 2 VERY important rules concerning posts made to the MoPo
List:
1) Personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated. This
includes name-calling, innuendo, insults or gossip.
2) Off-topic posts are not permitted. There are ample places on
the Internet to discuss politics, religion, sex or any other issue.
Posts to MoPo should be related to movies, movie memorabilia, and
the people who collect it.
Persons who disregard these rules will be removed from list
membership immediately and without notice. However on the first
infraction, individuals will be permitted to resubscribe if they
wish to rejoin the group and agree to abide by the posting rules.
Upon a second infraction, removal from the list membership will be
permanent. Determination of a rule violation and subsequent removal
from the mailing list is the sole responsibility of the MoPo List
Owner."
-- JR
Andy Neal wrote:
Agreed! JR does raise some very good points which I will certainly
take onboard.
I do think we should have some off topic conversations though if
it doesn't involve bickering, for example...
Check out this Watch made from Dinosaur Dung
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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___________________________________________________________________
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Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
