----- Original Message -----
From: Steven F. Poole
To: dsonesheets
Cc: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] What is the real Dip Shit really telling us? Let me
translate...AGAIN!
Like many of us who have the "collecting bug"..... besides film posters, I
also have an interest in another area of film memorabilia. I collect
autographs of vintage film stars. My tastes are pretty broad so I have signed
photos from such "high end" personalities as the 4 Marx Brothers to more
obscure folks like Nils Asther (who?.....the "male Garbo" at one point in the
late silent period of the 1920's).
Anyway, in the world of autograph dealers, there are several organizations
to which a dealer can belong. It seems like everyone who has an autograph to
sell belongs to the UACC (Universal Autograph Collectors Club) which has a code
of ethics and a dealer listing. There is also the more "exclusive" PADA
(Professional Autograph Dealers Association) which "strives to promote high
standards in business ethics, professionalism and service in the trade"....this
from their mission statement. Membership in PADA is by invitation of members.
As I became more seasoned in the hobby (and learned by mistakes with
forgeries), I have found myself almost dealing exclusively with PADA members as
I know that they really do stand by the material they are selling. Both PADA
and UACC are non-profit organizations so there is no conflict of interest in
the membership requirements. As many know, the world of autographs is
fraught with fakes and both of these organizations came about historically
because of the very issue we are dealing with in the poster hobby.
Is it time for poster folks to form such a membership directory and
association? LAMP is the closest we have to this but, I know that members do
pay for sponsorship. I do think LAMP is a tremendous resource but I see its
membership directory more as a paid advertisement of particular dealers. This
is fine, for what it is as it has served to inform me of who is out there and
what they offer. Yet it seems that each auction house and dealer is
ultimately on their own to establish their policies and guarentees. If you
would like to check out what PADA does in the area of membership, their website
address is www.padaweb.org
Yes, obviously they are directing collectors to dealers through this
website. However I feel as though I am in safe hands as a collector with any
of their dealers as they have to adhere to a common code of ethics in their
business practices.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: dsonesheets
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] What is the real Dip Shit really telling us? Let me
translate...AGAIN!
There's nothing quite like an individual making a complete ass out of
himself. I'm going to keep this email handy, for whenever I need to lift my
spirits and have a good laugh. Seriously. No, Seriously. This honestly made
me laugh till I cried.
It's obvious to anyone with half a brain (which pretty much leaves you out)
that Grey is saying a lot without really saying anything at all. As a previous
poster indicated, he would probably go far in politics. The fact that Heritage
isn't doing anything to rebuild customer confidence is exactly the reason why I
wouldn't consign with them. They are simply content to not ambrace change, and
leave their customers to their own devices, trying to make sure that they've
bought something genuine and not a forgery. Why is it now the buyer's
responsibility to make sure they haven't been taken, after an auction has
concluded, and with NO support from the person who sold you that $50,000
poster? Shouldn't we expect someone at Heritage to stand behind the
memorabilia they sell, rather than just tell us that while authentication is
nice, they're not going to be doing any of it. I've spent thousands with
Heritage in the past. But the new reality is that auctioneers, dealers, and
restorationists are going to have to step up and adapt to the new environment.
Anyone who doesn't is going to lose business.
I have been discussing the benefits and need for an official, legitimate
authentication firm/service for years. I believe that it would not only give
our hobby much-needed credibility and reduce the growing liabilities, but would
also bring a sense of professionalism and leadership that has been seriously
lacking. Very seriously. Wouldn't it look a lot better if we took care of our
own problems instead of now having to engage the FBI? To give you an
indication of how bad the situation is, I literally had to resort to my earlier
"tirade" to see if I could get anyone to even respond, because no one except
the parties out tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars really cares. I
chose my words very specifically, and sent that out very intentionally to see
if anyone (anyone not directly engaged with the FBI's investigation or civil
suits) are even really listening and willing to open a dialogue on what we need
to do going forward to try and prevent these kinds of situations from happening
again. Grey is indicating that neither he nor Heritage intend to help
spearhead any initiatives or engage in any kind of active participation to
address the current state of affairs. They don't even want to admit that there
is a problem at all, indicated by Grey telling us that "a grading and perhaps
authentification service would be of help BUT I believe up to this time the
fakes are not difficult to detect." It's right there for anyone who has eyes
to read - Heritage truly doesn't believe that an authentication service would
be of any benefit to their day-to-day operations, likely because it would lower
their profit margin. I don't know about you, but I refuse to shell out to
companies that only have their own best interest in mind, and don't care for
the sources of their paychecks, their customers.
As for you, you didn't get my point either, which is very apparent in your
reply. I would suggest that someday you look up the definition for the word
"argument" and make an effort to learn how to engage someone while debating.
I'll give you a hint; it does not include people saying "fuck" twenty-nine
times. That is not an argument, that's embarrassing yourself.
As for my personal relationship with Grey and Heritage, I've spent thousands
with them too, and I really do enjoy their color catalogs. As for my own
poster collection, I have significant width and breadth in my Japanese
material, not because I am concerned with having a lot of posters, or a lot of
money. It's because I enjoy the artwork and I love everything Japanese.
Finally, I've been watching a lot of Star Trek, and much like the way people
used to joke about Bill Gates being a Borg, I did the same with Heritage, and
it's called humor, which appears to also be beyond your scope of human
interaction.
Now why don't you go to your room, and leave the big thinking to the older
kids.
Steve
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Ron Moore <cinemaicon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
So- what is Dip Shit (DS) really telling us? Let me translate...
I KNOW fuckin' everything about this fuckin' fake poster and lobby
card situation and I KNOW that fuckin' Heritage is doing fuck all nothing about
it because they don't personally answer my fuckin' questions and kiss my
fuckin' ass! Grey needs to report to me IMMEDIATELY!!! And when he doesn't give
me the fuckin' answer I like, I'm gonna fuckin' rant on MoPo because I know how
to say FUCK and I got an excuse now! I KNOW that fuckin' Jaime is guilty-
because every fuckin' collector that's on MoPo has implied he is- and I have
appointed myself judge, jury and executioner! Grey and those fuckin' attorney's
at Heritage need a fuckin' personal lecture from me on how to conduct business
and respond to all the fuckin' fuckheads on MoPo that get their panties in a
wad beccause we all KNOW they ain't doin' nuthin to help us poor, poor, poor
fuckin' collectors. It's a fuckin' conspiracy!!! And we're all poor, because we
pay all those God Damn awful fuckin' fees. I KNOW those fuckers at Heritage
have personally wrecked the US economy with their fuckin' fees and that's why
we're fuck all poor. By the way, I'm God's gift to this hobby and I KNOW
everything!
NEXT- I would rather sell all my fucked up posters through Bruce's
fuckin' auction because I KNOW I dont' have anything good enough for those
fuckers at Heritage to take in their auction. That's 'cause I'm a cheap-ass
fuck and I begrudge anyone that actually publishes a color catalog and wants to
be paid for their fuckin' services! I sure wish I had a fuckin' formula for
printing cash!!! SHit! Maybe I can get hold of Kerry for that one. GOD-DAMN!!!
Whew!!!!! Oh-excuse the fuckin' shit out of me! Wait, I was supposed to stick
with FUCK! I got carried away for a minute.
I guess FUCK ME!!!!!
Did I get that about right?
Get off MoPo! IF you can't keep the discussion reasonable instead of
going off on tirades we really don't need it.
--- On Wed, 10/7/09, dsonesheets <dsoneshe...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: dsonesheets <dsoneshe...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MOPO] What is Grey really telling us? Let me
translate...
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 5:45 PM
So business as usual, Grey? Sure what it sounds like. No internal
investigation, not even a temporary halting of using Jaime for your restoration
EVEN TEMPORARILY until the issue gets settled? Man, for the amount of money
you guys make, sure sounds like you're doing jack shit besides being "more
cautious," which is what we pay those god awful fees for in the first fucking
place. Guess when you have a formula for printing your own cash you don't fuck
with it.
I would rather sell ALL of my material through Bruce on consignment
then give a single buck to Heritage. In the middle of this crisis they're
doing fuck all, and are just trying to keep their head down and hopefully dodge
some media bullets, while giving nothing but double-talk. Weren't they always
supposed to be "overly cautious", being one of the largest movie memorabilia
auctioneers in the country? And his comments in the media like sound like
something Bull Durham coached him on. Just want to do what's best for the
team, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.
Let me tell you what Grey is REALLY saying:
"First, it should be known that I, Grey Smith, took many of the
bullets from the opening volley of this conflict, and was ready to lay my life
down for the cause, and I alone have worked to warn and help collectors with
questions concerning these dastardly deeds. A grading and authentication (not
authentification, which isn't even a word) service would definitely be of help
but we don't really need it and for God's sake we don't want to pay for it,
because We Are Heritage and want to maximize our profits, not piss them away.
This is the way we've always done it, and this is the way we'll continue to do
it. And since the fakes are so easy to detect, we won't be overly cautious on
anything but some horror and a little sci-fi, which means we're not going to do
a lick of work on 98% of the other material out there unless we get caught
selling some more fraudulent material. We are Heritage. Your poster and lobby
card distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile. End
communication."
Did I get that about right?
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Smith, Grey - 1367 <gre...@ha.com>
wrote:
Sean and all MOPOers
I am very certain that no individual has in their possession a
forged poster that came from Heritage. As a matter of fact, I did first
discover the fact of these fakes when an attempt was made to consign a "forged"
Dracula title card from a respected horror collector and I promptly not only
called the consignor but began speaking with horror buyers throughout the
country that I know, to let them know what was found. I certainly know Sean and
Jim Gresham will attest to that. I know that Jim G. then sent me cards to look
over, in which my belief was, they were forgeries.
I believe I was the first to suggest to certain collectors in
Columbus that the Frankenstein Title card in another auction may not be
authentic, though I had not seen it, but knowing that some cards were showing
up that were forged.
I have sent clients to John Davis as he began to look into this
and I thought he was doing a good job, I believe, in verifying the cards.
Do I wish I had thrown up a red flare to the hobby earlier?
Perhaps, but the extent of this was not known nor was there much on who may
have been behind it. I think it was when Jim G. sent me his cards that some of
us were very surprised. No, I was not sworn to secrecy, as some claim, but have
worked to warn and help collectors with questions concerning these since first
discovering.
This is a warning to us to look closely in the future. A grading
and perhaps authentification service would be of help but I believe up to this
time the fakes are not difficult to detect. Please be assured that Heritage is
perhaps overly cautious at this stage in dealing primarily with horror and a
few examples of science fiction titles.
Grey
On Oct 7, 2009, at 1:45 PM, "Sean Linkenback"
<slinkenb...@comcast.net<mailto:slinkenb...@comcast.net>> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I am a little busy today, if you have a list of all these
items Heritage sold that were fake, I will be happy to comb through the
archives for you.
I believe that the 3-sheet of Ghost of Frankenstein mentioned in
the complaint by Jim Gresham was from Heritage, and I see it has been removed
from their archives.
I also know Heritage's policy is to not report any sales which
fell through, and while I would imagine this would include the inadvertent
selling of fakes perhaps you should address this question to Grey Smith rather
than me, as I am still not on their (or anyone else's) payroll.
Sean
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hershenson<mailto:brucehershen...@gmail.com>
To: Sean Linkenback<mailto:slinkenb...@comcast.net>
Cc: <mailto:MoPo-L@listserv.american.edu>
MoPo-L@listserv.american.edu<mailto:MoPo-L@listserv.american.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Where to send Universal material to
authenticate?
I went to the LAMP site and of course you are correct, and I
apologize for the error, to LAMP and anyone else who was offended by it.
I think I was thinking of LAMP not appearing to have anything on
their site about the Dracula fake being "authenticated" and then withdrawn, or
is there a link to that as well?
Sean, since you seem to be an expert on this, can you tell me if
the Hertiage archives on their site still includes items that proved to be
fake, and if so, why? Doesn't this distort the apparent rarity of those items?
Bruce
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--
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owner, ds|onesheets
303/478-3973
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--
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dsoneshe...@gmail.com
owner, ds|onesheets
303/478-3973
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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