After two "circus style" events that happened here at Carpenter Nature Center upon reporting rare birds we have stopped doing it. Witness the issue of the nesting Barn owls in Hastings a few years back. The Landowner became so upset at people's behavior that they cut everyone off. Seeing any rare bird should be deemed by everyone as a privilege not a right. We need to make certain, absolutely certain, that harm does not come to these creatures because of our desire to see them ....AND the neighborhood and landowners must be given all the respect they deserve. Too many disrespectful birders will simply turn this reporting mechanism into useless chatter.
Jim Fitzpatrick -----Original Message----- From: mou-net-bounces at moumn.org [mailto:mou-net-boun...@moumn.org] On Behalf Of mou-net-request at moumn.org Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:11 AM To: mou-net at moumn.org Subject: mou-net Digest, Vol 463, Issue 2 Send mou-net mailing list submissions to mou-net at moumn.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://moumn.org/mailman/listinfo/mou-net_moumn.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mou-net-request at moumn.org You can reach the person managing the list at mou-net-owner at moumn.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of mou-net digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: WEVI tape discussion (Richard Wood) 2. Re: WEVI tape discussion (douglas chapman) 3. Rare Bird Disturbance - White-eyed Vireo in MN, Loggerhead Shrike in WI (Pastor Al Schirmacher) 4. birding about the area (Steve Weston) 5. RFI: birding I35 to Dallas (Frank Berdan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:51:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Wood <rwood...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [mou] WEVI tape discussion To: mou-net at moumn.org, mnbird at lists.mnbird.net Message-ID: <590800.59726.qm at web50010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It seems to me that this discussion took place last year about the Yellow-breasted Chat that was at Black Dog Lake, and at the time, I wondered what was the point of everyone getting all upset, because it's just going to happen again. The fact is, it's "human nature" for people to act the way that they do. People are going to want to see a bird that is "rare" when it's posted, and some of them are going to take any means necessary to see it, whether it be to drive their vehicle where they shouldn't (which happened in Maryland recently) or to play tapes, or to throw a rock at a rail and kill it. I wish we could put an end to this, "we can end this behavior if enough of us post ethics "rules"", because it just isn't going to stop someone from seeing a bird once it has been posted. As I told a person in Maryland last year that was complaining about birders turning the location of a pair of Long-eared Owls into a circus, "if the original poster didn't want it to come to this, he shouldn't have posted the bird's location". Maybe we should do that instead of citing "birding ethics" and then having everyone and his brother posting asking us to "go by the rules"? In my almost 10 years as a birder, I've seen that asking others to "go by the rules" doesn't work. It doesn't work in other parts of life, so why do we think it will work here? Richard Richard L. Wood, Ph. D. Hastings, MN rwoodphd at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Diana Doyle <di...@managingthewaterway.com> To: mattjim at earthlink.net; mou-net at moumn.org; mnbird at lists.mnbird.net Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:22:11 PM Subject: Re: [mou] WEVI tape discussion Are birders also destined to fall victim to Garrett Hardin's tragedy of the commons? It would seem that there is no such thing as "little tape playing" when it is multiplied over all the birders who want to see a particular bird. I agree with Jim. It's a disservice to the bird and to the person who then regrets sharing their excitement of an unusual bird with the broader birding community. We must ask ourselves what our priorities are--if we are first and foremost advocates for birds, their well-being, and their habitat. Ultimately that's what being a birder is all about. Diana Doyle S. Minneapolis ------------- On Jul 28, 2008, at 16:09 , James Mattsson wrote: THIS IS A RARE BIRD THAT IS ON TERRITORY WHERE MANY BIRDERS HAVE A CHANCE TO HEAR AND SEE IT !!!! TAPES SHOULD NOT BE USED "SPARINGLY" OR ANY OTHER WAY !! TAPES CAN ONLY BE HARMFUL TO THE BIRD WHICH MIGHT BE MATED (PREDATION, ENERGY USED TO DEFEND AGAINST NON-EXISTENT NEIGHBORS, ETC), AND MAY PRECLUDE OTHER BIRDERS FROM SEEING/HEARING THE BIRD. THIS IS WHY I NO LONGER POST BIRDS I FIND THAT I FEEL THAT ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO TAPE PLAYING. HERE IS THE COMPLETE ABA CODE OF ETHICS. http://www.americanbirding.org/abaethics.htm Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://moumn.org/pipermail/mou-net_moumn.org/attachments/20080729/752266 3a/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:41:40 -0500 From: douglas chapman <rhameprai...@sio.midco.net> Subject: Re: [mou] WEVI tape discussion Cc: mnbird at lists.mnbird.net, mou-net at moumn.org Message-ID: <6BFB60B1-DA11-4DA1-98E4-D6EE6C9A8A18 at sio.midco.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well said. The Cassin's Sparrows which have been found (and confirmed breeding) here in South Dakota have not been posted for this reason. It's a bit too bad, but understandable since even the ABA magazine "Birding" now calls bird finding a "sport." It seems that tapes are our steroids. Doug Chapman Sioux Falls, SD On Jul 29, 2008, at 7:51 AM, Richard Wood wrote: > It seems to me that this discussion took place last year about the > Yellow-breasted Chat that was at Black Dog Lake, and at the time, I > wondered what was the point of everyone getting all upset, because > it's just going to happen again. > > The fact is, it's "human nature" for people to act the way that they > do. People are going to want to see a bird that is "rare" when it's > posted, and some of them are going to take any means necessary to > see it, whether it be to drive their vehicle where they shouldn't > (which happened in Maryland recently) or to play tapes, or to throw > a rock at a rail and kill it. > > I wish we could put an end to this, "we can end this behavior if > enough of us post ethics "rules"", because it just isn't going to > stop someone from seeing a bird once it has been posted. As I told > a person in Maryland last year that was complaining about birders > turning the location of a pair of Long-eared Owls into a circus, "if > the original poster didn't want it to come to this, he shouldn't > have posted the bird's location". Maybe we should do that instead > of citing "birding ethics" and then having everyone and his brother > posting asking us to "go by the rules"? In my almost 10 years as a > birder, I've seen that asking others to "go by the rules" doesn't > work. It doesn't work in other parts of life, so why do we think it > will work here? > > Richard > > Richard L. Wood, Ph. D. > Hastings, MN > rwoodphd at yahoo.com > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Diana Doyle <diana at managingthewaterway.com> > To: mattjim at earthlink.net; mou-net at moumn.org; mnbird at lists.mnbird.net > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:22:11 PM > Subject: Re: [mou] WEVI tape discussion > > Are birders also destined to fall victim to Garrett Hardin's tragedy > of the commons? It would seem that there is no such thing as "little > tape playing" when it is multiplied over all the birders who want to > see a particular bird. > > I agree with Jim. It's a disservice to the bird and to the person > who then regrets sharing their excitement of an unusual bird with > the broader birding community. > > We must ask ourselves what our priorities are--if we are first and > foremost advocates for birds, their well-being, and their habitat. > Ultimately that's what being a birder is all about. > > Diana Doyle > S. Minneapolis > > ------------- > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 16:09 , James Mattsson wrote: > > THIS IS A RARE BIRD THAT IS ON TERRITORY WHERE MANY BIRDERS HAVE A > CHANCE TO HEAR AND SEE IT !!!! TAPES SHOULD NOT BE USED > "SPARINGLY" OR ANY OTHER WAY !! TAPES CAN ONLY BE HARMFUL TO THE > BIRD WHICH MIGHT BE MATED (PREDATION, ENERGY USED TO DEFEND AGAINST > NON-EXISTENT NEIGHBORS, ETC), AND MAY PRECLUDE OTHER BIRDERS FROM > SEEING/HEARING THE BIRD. > > THIS IS WHY I NO LONGER POST BIRDS I FIND THAT I FEEL THAT ARE > SUSCEPTIBLE TO TAPE PLAYING. > > HERE IS THE COMPLETE ABA CODE OF ETHICS. > > http://www.americanbirding.org/abaethics.htm > > Jim > > > --- > This mailing list is sponsored by the Minnesota Ornithologists' > Union. Mailing list membership available on-line at http://moumn.org/subscribe.html > . > ----- > To unsubscribe send a blank email to mou-net-request at moumn.org with > a subject of unsubscribe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://moumn.org/pipermail/mou-net_moumn.org/attachments/20080729/f60e28 af/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:26:49 -0500 From: "Pastor Al Schirmacher" <pasto...@princetonfreechurch.net> Subject: [mou] Rare Bird Disturbance - White-eyed Vireo in MN, Loggerhead Shrike in WI To: <mou-net at moumn.org>, <mnbird at lists.mnbird.net>, "Wisconsin Birding Network" <wisbirdn at lawrence.edu> Message-ID: <003801c8f187$24502410$3901a8c0 at PASTORAL> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Seems that we have a clash of goals here. We want to see the rare birds. We want to protect the rare birds. Both are goods; both can be pursued in poor ways. Here's a few potential suggestions towards the solution side of this problem - mostly to pursue constructive discussion: 1) The person who originally sees the bird becomes the "project manager". She or he has the responsibility to learn the bird's status, then react accordingly. "Accordingly" could be a detailed post if there are no problems - a general post that requires backchannel contact to learn more details - or acting as the "guide" for viewing the bird with reasonable time constraints - or not posting at all - or.... 2) Birds in remoter locations might be more open to posting than urban birds, which might receive more birding pressure. For example, don't think the Lewis' Woodpecker in northern Wisconsin has received much pressure at all. 3) Moderators or acknowledged birding "authorities" could develop and distribute short lists and rules about posting rare birds. I'm not talking about something elaborate, rather, at most 8 1/2" by 11" sheet that can be quickly perused. 4) Birds that are published cannot be taped - perhaps a bit severe but would end the conflict. Thoughts? Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:57:00 -0500 From: "Steve Weston" <swest...@comcast.net> Subject: [mou] birding about the area To: "mnbird" <mnbird at lists.mnbird.net>, "Mou-net" <mou-net at moumn.org> Message-ID: <005d01c8f18b$ef2c38a0$6501a8c0 at Weston72505> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original A quick trip out to Hutchinson on Monday sent me by way of New Germany on local roads with HWY 7 closed. I observed good shorebird habitat in a small pond with several species (Killdeer, Pectoral, Least, Semi-Palmated SP, L. Yellowlegs, perhaps more) on CR33 just south of town and at CR30 and Yancy, a better known spot. The shallow lake to the south of that area is too well cloaked in willow thickets to be observed. I also stopped at Purgatory Creek in Eden Prairie, which has limited habitat, but is interesting. Shorebirds included Least & Solitary. More interesting was the two Red-necked grebes in cryptic molting plummage. Steve Weston on Quiggley Lake in Eagan, MN sweston2 at comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:10:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Berdan <fberd...@yahoo.com> Subject: [mou] RFI: birding I35 to Dallas To: MOU-NET <mou-net at moumn.org> Message-ID: <574282.2635.qm at web51908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone familiar with good birds/locations between here and Dallas during August? Would appreciate any responses back-channel. Will be dawdling southbound Aug 9-11. Then after a week of outdoor volunteering (wish me luck), back to MN at an even slower pace Aug 19-22. Any sugggested detours off I-35 would be welcome. Thanks, Frank Berdan ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ mou-net mailing list mou-net at moumn.org http://moumn.org/mailman/listinfo/mou-net_moumn.org End of mou-net Digest, Vol 463, Issue 2 ***************************************
