Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread Ethan Duni
> On Apr 8, 2023, at 2:14 PM, robert bristow-johnson > wrote: > > Also, especially if it's a 64-bit processor, we should simply be able to do > all of our DSP using doubles Not a HW person but AFAIK all 64 bit ARM processors also have SIMD. So there would be a 2x penalty for using double rath

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2023-04-08, robert bristow-johnson wrote: So this is what I wonder about. The SHArC is still alive, but is about the only dedicated DSP that is. I know with your PC there is lotsa latency for a real-time process and with a Mac there is some latency but it's better controlled. At least that'

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread brianw
These are good points ... about fixed-point math in hardware. The Texas Instruments TMS320 family of DSP chips have both fixed-point and floating-point variations. Even a "16-bit" fixed-point DSP will have 32-bit results from multiplications, and 8 bits of overhead in the registers storing inte

an old treatise (re: DSP book as the Steiglitz book WITH everything implemented in c/c++, and dsp programming tutors)

2023-04-08 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2023-04-01, Richard Dobson wrote: "Introductory Digital Signal Processing With Computer Applications", Paul Lynn and Wolfgang Fuerst. [...] I've never really coded myself, so no programming books. I've been on the side of the math. There, Oppenheim and Schafer's work, under the name "Digi

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread robert bristow-johnson
> On 04/08/2023 5:31 PM EDT Sampo Syreeni wrote: > > > On 2023-03-27, robert bristow-johnson wrote: > > > I think denorms are a good idea. They should be handled routinely by > > now. > > I do too. However I think in the DSP circuit they are also a kind of > stopgap. If you want to do float

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2023-03-27, robert bristow-johnson wrote: I think denorms are a good idea. They should be handled routinely by now. I do too. However I think in the DSP circuit they are also a kind of stopgap. If you want to do floats at all, you ought to be able to known in which regime of semi-logarith

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread brianw
I'm curious about the mathematical ramifications of turning on or off these various settings. The options are there for a reason: Because different numerical processing requirements affect the tradeoffs between speed and accuracy. Sometimes, you need the precision, and slowing down the processi

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread robert bristow-johnson
> On 04/08/2023 4:09 PM EDT Sampo Syreeni wrote: > > > On 2023-03-26, robert bristow-johnson wrote: > > > Title says it all. > > I don't really know. However, even in IEEE 754-1985, the double > precision is defined as a 64-bit format, and the handling of denormals > is the same as everywhe

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2023-03-27, Ethan Fenn wrote: My understanding is that on any reasonably modern Intel/AMD machines, you just have to make sure that the Flush To Zero (FTZ) and Denormals Are Zero (DAZ) hardware flags are set when your DSP code runs and there will be no penalty. Only it's really difficult

Re: Are there now 64-bit processors that deal with denorms routinely with no exception or interrupt?

2023-04-08 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2023-03-26, robert bristow-johnson wrote: Title says it all. I don't really know. However, even in IEEE 754-1985, the double precision is defined as a 64-bit format, and the handling of denormals is the same as everywhere. So, if a processor claims compliance with said standard, it would