On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Deepak Jain wrote:
> It has been a long time since I have seen this thread hashed out,
> so I figured I'd bring it up publicly.
>
> Is anyone comfortable using (in a network with > 5 routers) any
> non-Cisco or non-Juniper routers for BGP speaking? (Zebra/Gated
> boxes o
Thanks for all the answers on the previous question about Equinix.
The reason for the question is that we are working on a study here at
George Mason on assesing the vulnerbilities of the Internet and
telecommunications infrastructure to physical attack. One part that
we are looking at are
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> very much like to avoid doing the research in a vaccuum. I was hoping
> a discussion on NANOG wold be a good first step. The project is quite
> hot with the politicos and I very much want to make sure to best
> recommendations are made. Formal indu
Sean,
I completely agree with statement. It is not a matter of wanting to
know where the importants hubs are - we have a pretty good handle on
that, but what the impacts would be of a hub loss from an operational
stand point. Maybe this is a discussion that needs to be off-line.
My goal i
Title: Message
Quick question, does
there exist a practice of charging customer for IP address blocks used? My
theory is that the first Class C is included with the service, but I'm wondering
what happens when the customer wants 2,3,4 or more?
Shane
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:I completely agree with statement. It is not a matter of wanting to
:know where the importants hubs are - we have a pretty good handle on
:that, but what the impacts would be of a hub loss from an operational
:stand point. Maybe this is a discuss
Title: Message
Shane,
There
is a practice on that (At least here.). Generally we provide a Class C to our
customers at no additional charge, but we have been charging recently for the
use of additional blocks. After all, we have to pay those charges to ARIN, and
we do need to
Title: Message
Shane,
The
best practice is to follow the ARIN guidelines. This will make it much easier
for you to get your next block of address space. That means:
- Slow
start - issue folks what they can justify, not a /24.
-
Issue more space upon request, provided that justification i
NANOG Folks,
I'm working on a research project to determine how network product end-users
interact with the vendors to obtain technical support, software patches,
tech notes, and configuration guidelines. If any of you have about 15-20
minutes to chat or fill out a short survey, please contact m
On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 01:36:27PM -0400, Derek Samford wrote:
> Shane,
> There is a practice on that (At least here.). Generally we
> provide a Class C to our customers at no additional charge, but we have
Why in this day and age, 9 years after the invention of CIDR, are we still
r
Just wanted to publicly apologize for posting HTML to the list. Thanks
to Robert Seastrom for pointing it out to me. Still not sure why it
posted as html.
Derek
Haha. Mighty good question. No good answer.
Derek
> -Original Message-
> From: Richard A Steenbergen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 1:48 PM
> To: Derek Samford
> Cc: 'Owens, Shane (EPIK.ORL)'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: IP address fee??
>
> On Thu
Forgive my use of the term Class C, we do assign CIDR blocks to customers
and make them justify their addresses. I just finished a call with sales
and a customer where the customer said they won't pay for additional
addresses beyond a /24 and I was asked to see what other carriers are doing
in t
> Why in this day and age, 9 years after the invention of CIDR, are we still
> refering to "class C"'s?
Because we used up "class B"s?
Alex
As a side note the thanks for responses on Equinix were off list
responses - was not meant to be sarcasm since there were not any on
list responses.
Back to the topic - the first question is the cost of protecting an
asset less than the cost of loosing the asset. If the answer is yes
then t
The crux of the issue are FOIA requests. The government won't make these
types of vulnerability reports immmune to FOIA requests - thus a foreign
terrorist or home-grown "farmbelt fuhrer" could simply order up a list of
the most vulnerable sites, and select some to attack.
Due to the distributed
Possibly because that is what they are still teaching them as in
school?
Seriously... I'm not sure that the teachers I had for networking and
systems admin had ever heard of CIDR.
The textbooks hadn't. It was a nice bump in the learning curve when I
hit the real world.
*** REPLY SEP
At 12:44 PM 9/5/2002 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> One part that
>we are looking at are the vulnerbilites of interconnection facilites.
A quick point...Several folks have postulated that the internal
(non-physical) threat dwarfs that of the physical threat, due to the lack
of visibility,
Thus spake "Richard A Steenbergen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 01:36:27PM -0400, Derek Samford wrote:
> > Shane,
> > There is a practice on that (At least here.). Generally we
> > provide a Class C to our customers at no additional charge, but we have
>
> Why in this
On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 11:00:43AM -0700, Jeff Shultz wrote:
>
> Possibly because that is what they are still teaching them as in
> school?
>
> Seriously... I'm not sure that the teachers I had for networking and
> systems admin had ever heard of CIDR.
>
> The textbooks hadn't. It was a nice
That is one of the reasons research is being done at universities,
they are not answerable to FOIA's. While the university environment
is not the Fort Knox of security for special projects a high level of
security and confidentiality can be ensured. Trying to sort out
publications is the h
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 01:36:27PM -0400, Derek Samford wrote:
> > Shane,
> > There is a practice on that (At least here.).
> > Generally we provide a Class C to our customers at no
> > additional charge, but
Tony Tauber wrote:
>
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 01:36:27PM -0400, Derek Samford wrote:
> > > Shane,
> > > There is a practice on that (At least here.).
> > > Generally we provide a Class C to our customers at no
> > >
> That said, a few years back I wrote the "Interconnection Strategies for
> ISPs" white paper, which speaks to the economics of peering using exchange
> points vs. using pt-to-pt circuits. It documents a clear break even point
> where large capacity circuits (or dark fiber loops) into an IX wi
> Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:00:43 -0700
> From: "Jeff Shultz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: IP address fee??
>
>
> Possibly because that is what they are still teaching them as in
> school?
As much as I hate to interject this... CIDR is fairly new to me, but
ref
At 02:45 PM 9/5/2002 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>This obviously would be a thesis of Equinix and other collo space providers,
>since this is exactly the service that they provide. It won't, hower, be a
>thesis of any major network that either already has a lot of infrastructure
>in place or
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>
> Tony Tauber wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 01:36:27PM -0400, Derek Samford wrote:
> > > > Shane,
> > > > There is a practice on that (At least here.).
> > > >
At 11:39 AM 9/5/2002 -0700, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> > At least as importantly, why do 254 addresses get provided where the
> > actual need might not warrant that quantity?
>
>Because it's easier to do the reverse DNS? Sorry to contribute to the
>general noise, but that answer's close to the truth.
Thus spake "Richard A Steenbergen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 11:00:43AM -0700, Jeff Shultz wrote:
> >
> > Possibly because that is what they are still teaching them as in
> > school?
> >
> > Seriously... I'm not sure that the teachers I had for networking and
> > systems admin
Thus spake "Tony Tauber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 01:36:27PM -0400, Derek Samford wrote:
> > > Shane,
> > > There is a practice on that (At least here.).
> > > Generally we provide a Class C to our
"Again, it seems more likely and more technically effective to attack
internally than physically. Focus again here on the cost/benefit
analysis from both the provider and disrupter perspective and you will
see what I mean."
Is there a general consensus that cyber/internal attacks are more
ef
> Actually, the underlying assumption of this paper is that major networks
> already have a large global backbone that need to interconnect in
> n-regions. The choice between Direct Circuits and Colo-based cross connects
> is discussed and documented with costs and tradeoffs. Surviving a major
The thing is, the major cuts are not "attacks;" the backhoe operators
aren't gunning for our fiber (no matter how much it seems like they
are). If I wanted to disrupt traffic, intentionally and maliciously,
I would not derail a train into a fiber path. Doing so would be very
difficult, and the
The question is what if someone was gunning for your fiber. To date
cuts have been unintentional. Obviously the risk level is much higher
doing a phyisical attack, but the bad guys in this scenario are not
teenage hackers in the parents basement.
There is a good foundation of knowledge on
>
> The thing is, the major cuts are not "attacks;" the backhoe operators
> aren't gunning for our fiber (no matter how much it seems like they
> are). If I wanted to disrupt traffic, intentionally and maliciously,
> I would not derail a train into a fiber path. Doing so would be very
> diffic
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There is a good foundation of knowledge on the implications of cyber
> attacks, but the what-if of an intentional physical attack is an
> important question I believe. The context in this discussion has been
> very valuable and many thanks to eve
--- Begin Message ---
I base my allocations on the customers necessity not what they request.
ARIN can get picky when you go back for address space and you allocate a
/24 and the customer only uses a 30 ips..
Regards,
Manolo
On Thu, 2002-09-05 at 14:33, Tony Tauber wrote:
>
> On Thu, 5 Se
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Owens, Shane (EPIK.ORL) wrote:
> Quick question, does there exist a practice of charging customer for IP
> address blocks used? My theory is that the first Class C is included with
> the service, but I'm wondering what happens when the customer wants 2,3,4 or
> more?
Shane:
On 9/5/2002 at 16:01:02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> >
> > The thing is, the major cuts are not "attacks;" the backhoe operators
> > aren't gunning for our fiber (no matter how much it seems like they
> > are). If I wanted to disrupt traffic, intentionally and maliciously,
> > I would not d
> > This fails to address how this affects someone who has no problem with legal
> > ramfications - i.e. a terrorist.
>
> Even a terrorist will tend towards things that allow him to continue
> to be a terrorist. If I can do X amount of damage, and get caught, or
> do X amount of damage, and not
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:The question is what if someone was gunning for your fiber. To date
:cuts have been unintentional. Obviously the risk level is much higher
:doing a phyisical attack, but the bad guys in this scenario are not
:teenage hackers in the parents baseme
To reinforce a dissenting opinion, And your explanation accounts for
suicide bombers how? I would think a smoking hole in the ground
containing a train or whatever, particularly if lose of life is
involved, would be much more appealing to the motivations of most
terrorists than a couple of comput
I agree.
It's my employers policy that a T1 customer recieve a /29 (up to a /28 if they
can legitimize it based on the ARIN policy). A T3/DS3 customer is granted a
/24 by default.
I'm not exactly sure what the purchase price is for additional space, but I do
know that whatever space they req
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out what you think IP space allocation has to do
> with bandwidth. IP space is not just another bullet point on the
> marketing slide that makes a particular service option that more
> attractive - if you can't use it, you can't
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The question is what if someone was gunning for your fiber. To date
> cuts have been unintentional.
Think about it:
- how many fiber paths are there that cross the deserts or mountains
between the densely populated areas in the US?
- how hard wo
Batz,
I believe we are talking about two different perspectives here
operational and end user. The concern I have is with the ability of
sectors dependent on information infrastructure to operate if there
are problems. What web-site is abvailable to the end user is not the
value judgement
"Daniel Golding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The crux of the issue are FOIA requests. The government won't make these
> types of vulnerability reports immmune to FOIA requests - thus a foreign
> terrorist or home-grown "farmbelt fuhrer" could simply order up a list of
> the most vulnerable sites
My explanation accounts for suicide bombers in the statement: "Even
terrorist that will die to kill will probably not die to
inconvenience." This does not presume a western value system, either,
as somebody suggested. Many a terrorist will gladly give their lives
to destroy a hated enemy, or t
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I completely agree with statement. It is not a matter of wanting to
> know where the importants hubs are - we have a pretty good handle on
> that, but what the impacts would be of a hub loss from an operational
I don't know about that statement. Th
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:49:25 -0400 Derek Samford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Haha. Mighty good question. No good answer.
> > From: Richard A Steenbergen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Why in this day and age, 9 years after the invention of CIDR, are we
> still
> > refering to "class C"'s?
about
On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 12:04:16 -0700 "William B. Norton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Terrorists in cement trucks?
> Again, it seems more likely and more technically effective to attack
> internally than physically. Focus again here on the cost/benefit
> analysis
> from both the provider and di
Hi, NANOGers.
Rodney Joffe (thanks, Rodney!) correctly pointed out that my gTLD
monitoring was only tracking the Verisign gTLD (com, net, org) name
servers. I have now added the other TLDs to the mix. It can all
be found in two places:
http://www.cymru.com/DNS/
http://bgp.lcs.mit.edu/dnsmirro
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Richard Welty wrote:
> usually all i've ever needed to do at the door is sign in after proving
> that i work for a company that has colo space. my boxes of equipment
> have never been inspected.
How many banks know what their customers have put in the safe deposit
boxes store
>I think an important question would be what level of service are they
>buying. Including 255 address with a T3 would be very reasonable, less so
>with a T1, not very reasonable with DSL, and ridiculous with a dial-up
>account.
I must be missing something. Why would you expect need for
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Daniel Golding said:
>
>
> The crux of the issue are FOIA requests. The government won't make these
> types of vulnerability reports immmune to FOIA requests - thus a foreign
> terrorist or home-grown "farmbelt fuhrer" could simply order up a list of
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Richard Welty wrote:
> about 2 years ago, interviewing fresh graduates for jobs, i found that they
> were still being taught classful networking at many colleges.
Current CCNA Exam Description:
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/10/wwtraining/certprog/testing/current_exams/640
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> Why in this day and age, 9 years after the invention of CIDR, are we still
> refering to "class C"'s?
I submit that the comonly used definition of "Class C" has changed from
"An address in the class C range" to "a block of addresses aligned on
On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Tony Tauber wrote:
> At least as importantly, why do 254 addresses get provided where the
> actual need might not warrant that quantity?
Being out here on the edge, I ask that question a lot.
Customer calls and says "I need a static IP". I (actually our front line
people)
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