Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Iljitsch van Beijnum
On donderdag, sep 18, 2003, at 13:38 Europe/Amsterdam, Todd Vierling wrote: : ultradns uses the power of anycast to have these ips that appear : to be on close subnets in geographyically diverse locations. Oh, that's brilliant. How nice of them to defeat the concept of redundancy by

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Todd Vierling
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: : BIND does it but what about Microsoft cache/forwarder? At RIPE 45 (you : were there), a talk by people at CAIDA showed that A.root-servers.net : received twice as much traffic as the other root name servers since it : is just the first one

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Iljitsch van Beijnum
On donderdag, sep 18, 2003, at 14:08 Europe/Amsterdam, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: BGP is really bad at. DNS servers on the other hand track RTTs for query responses BIND does it but what about Microsoft cache/forwarder? At RIPE 45 (you were there), Was I??? a talk by people at CAIDA showed

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Todd Vierling
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: : There's an easy fix to that particular situation: Make the first (or first : two) listed servers anycast, and the rest unicast. : : It would require a central management (or at least a central : oversight) of the root name servers and I do not

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Todd Vierling
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: : Still doesn't help .ORG, which is 100% anycast and thus has no DNS-based : redundancy : : Wrong since there are two IP addresses. They may fail at the same time : (which apparently happened to you) but there is a least an element of : non-BGP

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Stephen J. Wilcox
: There's an easy fix to that particular situation: Make the first (or first : two) listed servers anycast, and the rest unicast. : : It would require a central management (or at least a central : oversight) of the root name servers and I do not believe there is one: : each root name

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Stephen J. Wilcox
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Todd Vierling wrote: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: : Still doesn't help .ORG, which is 100% anycast and thus has no DNS-based : redundancy : : Wrong since there are two IP addresses. They may fail at the same time : (which apparently happened to

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Todd Vierling
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Stephen J. Wilcox wrote: : 1. Only you were affected I doubt this. At least one person has noted seeing the same on this list, and I bet many more would corroborate by looking for DNS temp failures for MAIL FROM:[EMAIL PROTECTED] in mail logs from last night between about

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 09:57:23AM -0400, Todd Vierling wrote: The problem with UltraDNS, the point which many on this people are missing, is that at least some UltraDNS sites are advertising *all* anycast networks simultaneously (see traceroutes below). Yes, all == 2 at

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Todd Vierling
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Leo Bicknell wrote: : Number your sites from 1..N, have all odds announce one address, all : evens the other. DNS servers will still use the closest (due to RTT : checking), but will now also have a backup that does not go to the same : site in steady state, but is still

Re: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread Iljitsch van Beijnum
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Leo Bicknell wrote: A truely robust anycast setup has two addresses (or networks, or whatever), but only one per site. From the momentary outage while BGP reconverges to the very real problem of the service being down and the route still being announced there are issues

RE: DNS anycast considered harmful (was: .ORG problems this evening)

2003-09-18 Thread David Schwartz
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Leo Bicknell wrote: A truely robust anycast setup has two addresses (or networks, or whatever), but only one per site. From the momentary outage while BGP reconverges to the very real problem of the service being down and the route still being announced there are