Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-30 Thread Vadim Antonov
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > Actually IMO putting all their crap in their own dir is a feature > rather than a bug. I really hate the way unix apps just put their stuff > all over the place so it's an incredible pain to get rid of it again. Putting all crap in the working

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-30 Thread Iljitsch van Beijnum
On 30-jan-04, at 7:20, Alexei Roudnev wrote: Second problem is directory structure. In Unix, when I configure IDS (osiris or Tripwire or Intact), I can just be sure, that 'bin' and 'etc' and 'sbin' and 'libexec' directories does not have any variable files - all non-static files are in /var (So

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-29 Thread Alexei Roudnev
If I install code, I'd like to know, when installation is trying to make _administrative_ change, explicitly - so that I have a chance to say YES or NO. In Windows, it is not implemented in installations - you _must_ begin installation as admin. Another big problem is permission system and direct

RE: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-29 Thread Michel Py
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > But, regardless, Win2K and WinXP do have restricted-user > modes that tie this stuff down quite well. They tend to > be used in corporate environments. Indeed, and the one reason being that the last thing the IT staff wants is users installing apps, because even if t

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-29 Thread kenw
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:41:20 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >... >When NTFS came out an ordinary user could not write the system directory >tree Hence most users are running as Administrator or equivalent so that >they can write into the system tree. This was a bad design decision by >MS _and_ applicat

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-29 Thread Scott McGrath
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Alexei Roudnev wrote: > > > > > > Most Windows boxes are running with administrative privledges. That makes > > Windows a willing accomplice. The issue isn't that people click on > > attachments, but that there are no built in safeguards from what happens > > next. > Thi

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-29 Thread Alexei Roudnev
> > Most Windows boxes are running with administrative privledges. That makes > Windows a willing accomplice. The issue isn't that people click on > attachments, but that there are no built in safeguards from what happens > next. This is problem #1. Unfortunately, Windose is too complex and hav

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Stephen J. Wilcox
> I suspect the skill set/clue of RH users is at least an order > higher that windows users. really, based on experience that would be surprising, rh is now so easy to get and install, securing it is still problematic for most users > The main problem I see is many e-mail readers default to hav

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Dave Temkin
> > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > james > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:02 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed > it, there was

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread james
: What's that got to do with today? I might be reaching here, but I understand some people never upgrade or patch.

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Dave Temkin
>>: Also, for reference to other people - the preview pane does *not* >>allow >>: the execution of attachments unless they're double-clicked on and >>: acknowledged. Again - we're not talking about another OS or Outlook >>: exploit, only a stupid user exploit. >The "feature" has been fixed but

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread james
: Also, for reference to other people - the preview pane does *not* allow : the execution of attachments unless they're double-clicked on and : acknowledged. Again - we're not talking about another OS or Outlook : exploit, only a stupid user exploit. The "feature" has been fixed but it **did** a

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Dave Temkin
On Wednesday 28 January 2004 08:37, Dave Temkin wrote: >> So? Had the virii been an application compiled for RedHat and >> everyone ran RedHat instead of Windows and they downloaded it using >> Evolution and double clicked on it, it would suddenly be RH's fault >> instead of MIcrosoft's? >If Re

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Lou Katz
Unfortunately, Microsoft products seem to have a default which is set to hide file extensions and to make it very difficult to see 'multiple extensions' like the '.doc.pif' in the current worm, it is somewhat easier to dress a vampire in gerbil clothing in these systems than in others. -- -=[L]=

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Rachael Treu
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 12:07:36PM -0500, Patrick W.Gilmore said something to the effect of: > > On Jan 28, 2004, at 11:56 AM, james wrote: > Not sure why that is the case. Web browsers know better than to > execute things, or at least to execute them in a sandbox, and there > seems to be muc

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Alexei Roudnev
RedHAT do not allow to run an attachment, even if attachment wish to be runned - it uses 'x' flag which is not attachment's attribute. Linus useers are niot Administrator's, so virus can not infect the whole system,... Etc etc (Why RedHAT? It is the worst Lunux amongs all. Use SuSe or Mandrak

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Patrick W . Gilmore
On Jan 28, 2004, at 11:56 AM, james wrote: : So? Had the virii been an application compiled for RedHat and : everyone ran RedHat instead of Windows and they downloaded it using : Evolution and double clicked on it, it would suddenly be RH's fault : instead of MIcrosoft's? I suspect the skill set/

OT: Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Scott Weeks
It's not completely the fault of anything except the end-user. It's like the Jimmy Buffet song says: Evolution is mean, there's no dumbass vaccine scott On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Dave Temkin wrote: : >>> : They rate of it is quite surprising. By the description, the trick : >>>

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread james
: So? Had the virii been an application compiled for RedHat and : everyone ran RedHat instead of Windows and they downloaded it using : Evolution and double clicked on it, it would suddenly be RH's fault : instead of MIcrosoft's? I suspect the skill set/clue of RH users is at least an order hig

Re: Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Martin Hepworth
Dave Temkin wrote: So? Had the virii been an application compiled for RedHat and everyone ran RedHat instead of Windows and they downloaded it using Evolution and double clicked on it, it would suddenly be RH's fault instead of MIcrosoft's? Or is it sendmail's fault because it was listening on p

Misplaced flamewar... WAS: RE: in case nobody else noticed it, there was a mail worm released today

2004-01-28 Thread Dave Temkin
>>> >>> >>> >>> : They rate of it is quite surprising. By the description, the trick >>> / >>> : method of infection does not seem all that different than past worms >>> : viri. Makes me wonder how many people in a room would reach into >>their >>> : purse/pocket on hearing, "Wallet inspector"