> To expand: the problem is the VoIP client being able to *furnish* an
> approximation of where it is, to permit the selection of the proper
> Public Safety Access Point (or equivalent).
VoIP clients can't provide such information unless they
KNOW this information in the first place. The only so
>You mean like the dozens of dire warnings Vonage has in their product
>to repeatedly remind less clueful and home users to register the
>correct location information for their phone. And yet, Vonage is
>still being sued by an State Attorney General.
I believe that the incident that provoked thi
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Jay R. Ashworth
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 3:14 PM
> To: nanog list
> Subject: Re: FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 10:56:57PM -0400, Hanniga
It appears that yet another state AG is going after
Vonage -- this time Michigan:
http://www.networkingpipeline.com/news/162100463
- ferg
-- Sean Donelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You mean like the dozens of dire warnings Vonage has in their product to
repeatedly remind less clueful and ho
On Mon, 2 May 2005, Chris Boyd wrote:
> This would be a similar responsibility to what PBX admins already have
> to do, as others have pointed out. Less clueful and/or home users
> would need to have dire warnings printed in the doc and displayed on
> screen about configuring the correct location
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 10:56:57PM -0400, Hannigan, Martin wrote:
> > The PBX intercepts the call and uses special trunks to the PSAP;
> > it also has to send data telling where the caller is.
>
> There are no special trunks to the PSAP from a PBX.
Actually, Martin, there are.
For E-911 campus-
On May 1, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2005, Chris Boyd wrote:
s/zipcode/unique geographic identifier on the rough order of a square
mile/
Or have the server return the SNMP location information. The network
operator would then be able to configure locally meaningful
inform
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 11:56:50PM -0400, David Lesher wrote:
> Alas, Gamewell fire boxes are all but dead. I don't know of any
> city still running them. Too bad, because it was a dirt-simple
> technology that Just Plain Worked. Looks like they were first
> deployed in the 1850's.
I believe that
At 12:55 AM +0200 on 4/29/05, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
On 29-apr-2005, at 0:17, Owen DeLong wrote:
Someone should show them some of the 802.11 based "cellular-like" SIP
phones and ask them how exactly they plan to get good geolocation data
for 911 on those and the soft-phone in my laptop.
Who e
On 2-mei-2005, at 13:58, JP Velders wrote:
I even recall that the Dutch Phonebook on a CD-ROM had unlisted
numbers on it, so you could get the address associated with it...
Hardly.
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 01:46:50 +0200
> From: Niels Bakker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
> * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sean Donelan) [Mon 02 May 2005, 01:45 CEST]:
> >Why do you think the ISP knows anything more prec
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
>
> > Here's one vendor:
> > http://www.tonecommander.com/e911/How%20PBX%20ANI-LINK%20Works.htm
>
> I think this scheme isn't going to work for VOIP.
Well, yea.. It's not.
> I think that VOIP phones will either ultimately be exempte
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> David Lesher
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:58 PM
> To: nanog list
> Subject: Re: FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
>
>
>
> Speaking on Deep Background,
On Mon, 2 May 2005, Niels Bakker wrote:
>
> * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sean Donelan) [Mon 02 May 2005, 01:45 CEST]:
> >Why do you think the ISP knows anything more precise that the
> >information they already give in the IN-ADDR.ARPA name? Let's encode
> >the ZIP Code in the router DNS name ... (well
On Sun, 1 May 2005, Hannigan, Martin wrote:
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > Chris Boyd
> > On May 1, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
> >
> > > so, how does this work when you dial into the internet in
> > (or use your
> > > DSL) in newark and the termination point for L3 is
On Sun, 1 May 2005, David Lesher wrote:
>
> Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > When somebody in the office picks up a phone and dials EXTERNAL-911 how
> > do the emergancy services know they are in one building rather than another
> > office acros
>> s/zipcode/unique geographic identifier on the rough order of a square
>> mile/
> Or have the server return the SNMP location information. The network
> operator would then be able to configure locally meaningful
> information.
i figured that folk were welcome to smoke whatever they wanted
> From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun May 1 17:41:59 2005
> From: Chris Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
> Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 17:41:40 -0500
> To: nanog@merit.edu
>
>
>
> On May 1, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
>
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
>
>
>
>
> When somebody in the office picks up a phone and dials EXTERNAL-911 how
> do the emergancy services know they are in one building rather than another
> office across town?
The PBX intercepts the call and uses special trunks
On Mon, 2 May 2005, Simon Lyall wrote:
> This speculation is fun but my question is how do people do this now? I
> would assume that many people on this list work for large companies with
> multiple sites and a single phone network spanning them all.
>
> When somebody in the office picks up a phon
This speculation is fun but my question is how do people do this now? I
would assume that many people on this list work for large companies with
multiple sites and a single phone network spanning them all.
When somebody in the office picks up a phone and dials EXTERNAL-911 how
do the emergancy s
On Sun, 1 May 2005, David Lesher wrote:
> Oh, don't forget 'special' zip codes such as 44181 and my favorite
> for survey-takers -- 20505.
There are plenty like 44181, which is Cleveland, Ohio's airmail facility,
that don't represent physical locations. Others are 44101, the Cleveland
main pos
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
>
>
>
> No to nit picks, but do zip codes share the same boundaries as
> municipalities?
>
ROTFL...
Zip codes, municipalities, voting districts {we have many: State,
ergo US Senate, US House, State House, County, City, precinct,
sc
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sean Donelan) [Mon 02 May 2005, 01:45 CEST]:
Why do you think the ISP knows anything more precise that the
information they already give in the IN-ADDR.ARPA name? Let's encode
the ZIP Code in the router DNS name ... (well, someone had to suggest
using DNS as the universal d
On Sun, 1 May 2005, Chris Boyd wrote:
> > s/zipcode/unique geographic identifier on the rough order of a square
> > mile/
>
> Or have the server return the SNMP location information. The network
> operator would then be able to configure locally meaningful
> information.
Why do you think the ISP
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Chris Boyd
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:42 PM
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
>
>
>
>
> On May 1, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Christophe
No to nit picks, but do zip codes share the same boundaries as
municipalities?
How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
provider that would return a zipcode?
$ telnet 10.255.255.254
Connected
33709
Disconnected.
$
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Alex Rubenstein, AR97, K2AHR, [EMAIL P
On May 1, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
so, how does this work when you dial into the internet in (or use your
DSL) in newark and the termination point for L3 is in Philadelphia?
That
seems like more than 1sq mile...
In the dial up case, you could/should know the originating nu
On May 1, 2005, at 11:44 AM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 04:37:40PM +, Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2005, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
provider that would return a zipcode?
$ telnet 10.255.255.254
Conne
* Peter & Karin Dambier:
> Skype and public domain telefones dont know about location,
> nor will they ever learn.
>
> The only place where somebody could catch a 911 call is at
> a sip server.
Come on, let's be a bit more creative. Location signalling over IP
would be technically feasible. Y
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Jay R. Ashworth
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:17 PM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 09:20:21PM +0200, Brad
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 09:20:21PM +0200, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Where's the zipcode?
Aw, hell, people; of course it's not a one layer problem.
But only being able to participate in nanog one day a week has clearly
ticked some folks off again; crawling back into my cave now. Thought
this w
On May 2, 2005, at 2:34 AM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
provider that would return a zipcode?
That would be fine in the US, and with some extension in Canada and a
few other countries.
No, I think the service would have to be built usin
> To expand: the problem is the VoIP client being able to *furnish* an
> approximation of where it is, to permit the selection of the proper
> Public Safety Access Point (or equivalent).
The fact is:
Skype is not interested where the client is located.
They dont care. Well, Skype is not a define
Thus spake "Jay R. Ashworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> provider that would return a zipcode?
First, there are plenty of examples of ZIP codes which are shared by
multiple municipalities and thus PSAPs, but at least you'd get _someone_
>are you -REALLY- arguing for the return of "finger" ??
If it gets the user a brown fizzy drink ... it can't be a completely bad idea.
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 09:51:33AM -0700, Bill Woodcock wrote:
> That said, a widely-implemented well-known anycast address that would
> give you location information is a really cool idea. A smoother
> imlementation might be to just have a well-known address that you'd
> do a DNS LOC query agains
> How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> provider that would return a zipcode?
>
> $ telnet 10.255.255.254
> Connected
> 33709
> Disconnected.
> $
>
are you -REALLY- arguing for the return of "finger" ??
--bill
Not finger, but something like this could work. The
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 12:55:16PM -0400, David Lesher wrote:
> Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
> > > How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> > > provider that would return a zipcode?
> > >
> > > $ telnet 10.255.255.254
> > > Connected
> > > 3
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
>
>
>
> > How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> > provider that would return a zipcode?
> >
> > $ telnet 10.255.255.254
> > Connected
> > 33709
> > Disconnected.
>
> is there a unique zipcode in shanghai?
On Sun, 1 May 2005, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 04:37:40PM +, Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
> > On Sun, 1 May 2005, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > > How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> > > provider that would return a zipcode?
> > >
> > > $ te
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 04:38:10PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> > provider that would return a zipcode?
> >
> > $ telnet 10.255.255.254
> > Connected
> > 33709
> > Disconnected.
> > $
> are you -REALLY- arguing for th
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 04:37:40PM +, Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2005, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> > provider that would return a zipcode?
> >
> > $ telnet 10.255.255.254
> > Connected
> > 33709
> > Disconnecte
On Sun, May 01, 2005 at 12:34:16PM -0400, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 06:12:25PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote:
> > I submit that I don't necessarily want my communications device or my
> > location tracked at all times by the government. My point is not the
> > need for locati
On Sun, 1 May 2005, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>
> How about an anycast address implement(ed|able) by every network
> provider that would return a zipcode?
>
> $ telnet 10.255.255.254
> Connected
> 33709
> Disconnected.
is there a unique zipcode in shanghai?
On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 06:12:25PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote:
> I submit that I don't necessarily want my communications device or my
> location tracked at all times by the government. My point is not the
> need for location, but, that it is impractical to reliably implement
> the traditional 911
112 works in the UK but everyone just dials 999 usually
for all the wrong reasons.
> Hm... little question of interest ;)
>
> In Holland the number used to be "06-11", but was changed to a
> so-called European Emergency number ("112"). Does this number also
> work in Germany ? "Back t
>
> > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:00:15 +0200 (MEST)
> > From: Peter & Karin Dambier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: nanog@merit.edu
> > Subject: Re: FCC To Require 911 for VoIP
>
> > [ ... ]
> > In Germany emergency calls are 110 not 911.
> >
> Who exactly will I be talking to when I dial 911 from an internet cafe
> in Puerto Vallarta through my Virgina VOIP account with a California
> Billing address?
Even more interesting, what if you have a heart attack and a
helpful local picks up your phone and dials 060? Normally,
in Puerto Vall
>
> On 29-apr-2005, at 3:12, Owen DeLong wrote:
>
> >> Maybe a satellite network that continuously transmit location
> >> beacon information which can be used to triangulate one's
> >> location would
> >> do the trick?
>
Skype and public domain telefones dont know about location,
nor will
On 29-apr-2005, at 3:12, Owen DeLong wrote:
Maybe a satellite network that continuously transmit location
beacon information which can be used to triangulate one's
location would
do the trick?
I submit that I don't necessarily want my communications device or my
location tracked at all times b
> You're absolutely right. I submit that if the US government wants
> location information for VoIP 911 calls, they should create an
> infrastructure that allows people to determine their location. Your
> example shows that this infrastructure should also be available outside
> the US. Maybe a sat
Slashdotted
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/28/1938239
A few good arguments there
On 4/28/05, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> A rather important turn of events.
>
> http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=33733
>
> - ferg
>
> --
> "Fergie", a.k.a.
On 29-apr-2005, at 0:17, Owen DeLong wrote:
Someone should show them some of the 802.11 based "cellular-like" SIP
phones and ask them how exactly they plan to get good geolocation data
for 911 on those and the soft-phone in my laptop.
Who exactly will I be talking to when I dial 911 from an intern
That's a good suggestion. :-)
There's another article today on Advanced IP Pipleine that
openswith the statement:
"So far, new FCC chairman Kevin Martin isn't long on
solutions -- in fact, he's becoming part of the problem."
http://www.advancedippipeline.com/161601652
I prefer to remain nuetr
Someone should show them some of the 802.11 based "cellular-like" SIP
phones and ask them how exactly they plan to get good geolocation data
for 911 on those and the soft-phone in my laptop.
Who exactly will I be talking to when I dial 911 from an internet cafe
in Puerto Vallarta through my Virgin
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