MAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Mikael Abrahamsson
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:07 AM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: RE: FW: ISPs slowing P2P traffic...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Frank Bulk wrote:
> Except that upstreams are not at 27 Mbps
> (http://i.cmpnet.com/commsd
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Frank Bulk wrote:
Except that upstreams are not at 27 Mbps
(http://i.cmpnet.com/commsdesign/csd/2002/jun02/imedia-fig1.gif show that
you would be using 32 QAM at 6.4 MHz). The majority of MSOs are at 16-QAM
at 3.2 MHz, which is about 10 Mbps. We just took over two systems
- Original Message -
From: "Joe Greco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[snip]
As long as you fairly disclose to your end-users what limitations and
restrictions exist on your network, I don't see the problem.
You've set out a qualification that generally doesn't exist. For example,
this discu
Joe Greco wrote:
As long as you fairly disclose to your end-users what limitations and
restrictions exist on your network, I don't see the problem.
You've set out a qualification that generally doesn't exist. For example,
this discussion included someone from a WISP, Amplex, I believe, t
downstream to
upstream ports.
Frank
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Mikael Abrahamsson
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:41 PM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: RE: FW: ISPs slowing P2P traffic...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Frank Bulk wrote:
>
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Frank Bulk wrote:
I'm not aware of MSOs configuring their upstreams to attain rates for 9 and
27 Mbps for version 1 and 2, respectively. The numbers you quote are the
theoretical max, not the deployed values.
But with 1000 users on a segment, don't these share the 27 meg
ikael Abrahamsson
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:27 AM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: FW: ISPs slowing P2P traffic...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Brandon Galbraith wrote:
> I think no matter what happens, it's going to be very interesting as
Comcast
> rolls out DOCSIS 3.0 (with speeds ar
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Martin Hannigan
Sent: Tue 1/15/2008 9:25 PM
To: Joe Greco
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: FW: ISPs slowing P2P traffic...
On Jan 15, 2008 3:52 PM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Joe Greco wrote:
> > > I have no idea what th
On Jan 15, 2008 3:52 PM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Joe Greco wrote:
> > > I have no idea what the networking equivalent of thirty-seven half-eaten
> > > bags of Cheetos is, can't even begin to imagine what the virtual
> > > equivalent
> > > of my couch is, etc. Your metaphor doe
> Joe Greco wrote:
> > I have no idea what the networking equivalent of thirty-seven half-eaten
> > bags of Cheetos is, can't even begin to imagine what the virtual equivalent
> > of my couch is, etc. Your metaphor doesn't really make any sense to me,
> > sorry.
>
> There isn't one. The "fat man
This is amazing. People are discovering oversubscription.
When we put the very first six 2400bps modems for the public on the
internet in 1989 and someone shortly thereafter got a busy signal and
called support the issue was oversubscription. What? You mean you
don't have one modem and phone lin
Joe Greco wrote:
I have no idea what the networking equivalent of thirty-seven half-eaten
bags of Cheetos is, can't even begin to imagine what the virtual equivalent
of my couch is, etc. Your metaphor doesn't really make any sense to me,
sorry.
There isn't one. The "fat man" metaphor was get
> Joe Greco wrote:
> > Time to stop selling the "always on" connections, then, I guess, because
> > it is "always on" - not P2P - which is the fat man never leaving. P2P
> > is merely the fat man eating a lot while he's there.
>
> As long as we're keeping up this metaphor, P2P is the fat man who
> As long as we're keeping up this metaphor, P2P is the fat man who says
Guys, according to wikipedia over 70 million people fileshare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_of_file_sharing
That's not the fat man, that's a significant portion of the market.
Demand is changing, meet the new needs o
Joe Greco wrote:
Time to stop selling the "always on" connections, then, I guess, because
it is "always on" - not P2P - which is the fat man never leaving. P2P
is merely the fat man eating a lot while he's there.
As long as we're keeping up this metaphor, P2P is the fat man who says
he's go
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:43:12 -0500
> "William Herrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Jan 14, 2008 5:25 PM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > So users who rarely use their connection are more profitable to the ISP.
> > >
> > > The fat man isn't a welcome sight to the owner of the AY
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:56:30 +0900
Adrian Chadd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008, Mark Smith wrote:
>
> > But the fat man isn't allowed to take up residence in the restaurant
> > and continously eat - he's only allowed to be there in bursts, like we
> > used to be able to ass
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Brandon Galbraith wrote:
I think no matter what happens, it's going to be very interesting as Comcast
rolls out DOCSIS 3.0 (with speeds around 100-150Mbps possible), Verizon FIOS
Well, according to wikipedia DOCSIS 3.0 gives 108 megabit/s upstream as
opposed to 27 and 9
On 1/15/08, Adrian Chadd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> ffs, stop with the crappy analogies.
>
> The internet is like a badly designed commodity network. Built
> increasingly
> cheaper to deal with market pressures and unable to shift quickly to
> shifting
> technologies.
>
> Just like the telcos
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008, Mark Smith wrote:
> But the fat man isn't allowed to take up residence in the restaurant
> and continously eat - he's only allowed to be there in bursts, like we
> used to be able to assume people would use networks they're connected
> to. "Left running" P2P is the fat man n
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:43:12 -0500
"William Herrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Jan 14, 2008 5:25 PM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > So users who rarely use their connection are more profitable to the ISP.
> >
> > The fat man isn't a welcome sight to the owner of the AYCE buffe
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 06:43:12PM -0500, William Herrin wrote:
> On Jan 14, 2008 5:25 PM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > So users who rarely use their connection are more profitable to the ISP.
> >
> > The fat man isn't a welcome sight to the owner of the AYCE buffet.
>
> The fat man
On Jan 14, 2008 5:25 PM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So users who rarely use their connection are more profitable to the ISP.
>
> The fat man isn't a welcome sight to the owner of the AYCE buffet.
Joe,
The fat man is quite welcome at the buffet, especially if he brings
friends and t
> From my experience, the Internet IP Transit Bandwidth costs ISP's a lot
> more than the margins made on Broadband lines.
>
> So users who rarely use their connection are more profitable to the ISP.
The fat man isn't a welcome sight to the owner of the AYCE buffet.
What exactly does this imply
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