> I think you may have misread my comment. ARIN ALLOWS the issuance of /24s to
> multihomed enterprises. The recent policy decision was made to allow
> upstreams to do this sort of allocation, without having to receive any other
> justification, other than multihomed status. This could seem to be
(SNIP)
> > Currently, RIR's will issue an AS and will allow the issuance
> of a /24 to a
> > multihomed enterprise, simply on the basis of being multihomed.
> From this
> > point of view, it's easy to make the case that the proper "RIR-approved"
> > boundary for prefix filtering should be at the
> This is all great and wonderful, except for one thing - the RIR allocation
> boundaries were never really meant to be used as "official" filtering prefix
> length limits. I certainly support Verio's right to filter on whichever
> boundaries make business sense to them. However, there is no deny
MAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Stephen Griffin
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:24 PM
> To: Stephen Stuart
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: verio arrogance
>
>
>
> In the referenced message, Stephen Stuart said:
> >
> > > I can't really see wh
> > > Announce your largest aggregate, and announce more-specifics tagged
> > > no-export to those peers who agree to accept them?
> >
> > Which is worse than announcing just the more specifics to 2 different
> > transit providers in 2 different cities.
>
> Worse for those two transit providers
> You aren't the biggest offender, but how should anyone draw an arbitrary
> line for "you are polluting too much" and "you are polluting, but to a
> reasonable extent".
The most reasonable and quantitative means I can see is technical; if
there is no network engineering benefit to announcing mo
On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 10:49:21PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> > Announce your largest aggregate, and announce more-specifics tagged
> > no-export to those peers who agree to accept them?
>
> Which is worse than announcing just the more specifics to 2 different
> transit providers in 2 di
9 PM
To: Stephen Griffin
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: verio arrogance
> > I'm a little disappointed you're wasting list bandwidth after this
> > has been well discussed, and not a single post has offered a better
> > technical alternative to de-aggregating my ARIN
> > I'm a little disappointed you're wasting list bandwidth after this has
> > been well discussed, and not a single post has offered a better
> > technical alternative to de-aggregating my ARIN /20 (given my network
> > topology).
> >
> > -Ralph
>
> Announce your largest aggregate, and announc
In the referenced message, Ralph Doncaster said:
> > I'm a little disappointed in Verio, if they really did decide to accept
> > your unneccessarily deaggregated prefixes.
>
> I'm a little disappointed you're wasting list bandwidth after this has
> been well discussed, and not a single post has
In the referenced message, Stephen Stuart said:
>
> > I can't really see why, as long as the provider has punched the
> > appropriate hole for your aggregate in their filters. More specific
> > routes always win out. Or am I missing your point?
>
> The point, I think, is the effort involved i
> I'm a little disappointed in Verio, if they really did decide to accept
> your unneccessarily deaggregated prefixes.
I'm a little disappointed you're wasting list bandwidth after this has
been well discussed, and not a single post has offered a better
technical alternative to de-aggregating my
In the referenced message, Ralph Doncaster said:
>
> > That said, their current policy of refusing to accept de-aggregated
> > prefixes from peers (while accepting such from paying customers) makes
> > perfect sense, IMHO. Not arrogant, just a smart & reasonable business
> > decision.
>
> I ha
> table. Why should we shoot for a 100,000 route table instead of 500,000
> if it does not impact performance?
Convergence time?
- kurtis -
>
> >That is why the NANAE people don't like verio. But, nonetheless, I
> >don't think that putting verio's mailserver on a formmail list is
> >accomplishing anything good, since they fixed THAT problem...
> >
> >--Phil
> >
> >-Original Me
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
>Kai Schlichting
>Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 6:37 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Cc: Kai Schlichting
>Subject: Re: verio arrogance
>
>
>
>How's THIS for Verio arrogance, going to a whole new level:
>
>htt
blem...
--Phil
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Kai Schlichting
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 6:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Kai Schlichting
Subject: Re: verio arrogance
How's THIS for Verio arrogance, going to a whole new level
How's THIS for Verio arrogance, going to a whole new level:
http://www.monkeys.com/anti-spam/filtering/verio-demand.ps
Details were on the SPAM-L list Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:51:05 EDT:
Verio threatens to sue Ron Guilmette over the IP 208.55.91.59
appearing on his FormMail.pl open-proxy/for
Daniel Golding wrote:
>
> RADB is largely meaningless, in terms of authorization or authority to
> advertise. However, if you have a properly delegated SWIP entry for the
> block, few providers will request LOA. Those who do, should probably be
> avoided.
Largely? I like to see the SWIP, but
RADB is largely meaningless, in terms of authorization or authority to
advertise. However, if you have a properly delegated SWIP entry for the
block, few providers will request LOA. Those who do, should probably be
avoided.
I still like the idea of using the DNS system for this, since there are
> I can't really see why, as long as the provider has punched the
> appropriate hole for your aggregate in their filters. More specific
> routes always win out. Or am I missing your point?
The point, I think, is the effort involved in using global route
announcements to solve your traffic engi
> On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> > And your suggestion has technical deficiencies as well. I have a leased
> > line between Toronto and Ottawa, so I want to announce my Ottawa IPs to my
> > Toronto transit provider as well as an Ottawa transit provider. And the
> > reverse for
On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> And your suggestion has technical deficiencies as well. I have a leased
> line between Toronto and Ottawa, so I want to announce my Ottawa IPs to my
> Toronto transit provider as well as an Ottawa transit provider. And the
> reverse for the Toronto
> (Apologies if this is flogging a dead horse, but some messages are worth
> repeating, if for no other reason than to illustrate the down side of
> not understanding the proper rationale for CIDR.)
I thought the dead horse was the conclusion that small ISPs should use
whatever means the ARIN ru
>> I have one downstream ISP customer that explicitly asked for "full BGP
>> routes" to be written into the contract. Why Verio's customer's wouldn't
>> want full routes makes no business sense to me.
The reasons are related to the law of diminishing returns.
-mark
> That said, their current policy of refusing to accept de-aggregated
> prefixes from peers (while accepting such from paying customers) makes
> perfect sense, IMHO. Not arrogant, just a smart & reasonable business
> decision.
I have one downstream ISP customer that explicitly asked for "full B
Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Ralph Doncaster
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:37 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: verio arrogance
>
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
>
> >
Brian Wallingford wrote:
[...]
> That said, their current policy of refusing to accept de-aggregated
> prefixes from peers (while accepting such from paying customers) makes
> perfect sense, IMHO. Not arrogant, just a smart & reasonable business
> decision.
Interesting. Looking around, it se
> That said, their current policy of refusing to accept de-aggregated
> prefixes from peers (while accepting such from paying customers) makes
> perfect sense, IMHO. Not arrogant, just a smart & reasonable business
> decision.
You could turn this around and ask what reasons there are to not
:
: They tend to match the size of the smallest block assigned by the
:registries.
:
Calling it a tendency is probably a stretch. They only bowed to RIR
policy once in recent memory, when ARIN began allocating /20 PI
blocks. Prior to that, they nearly got their logo placed in Webster's
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 05:55:51PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> This is really old news...actually, I seem to recall that they would only
> accept /19 or shorter prefixes from former Class A & B space...I pressed
> Sprint for a /21 from the swamp (instead of the former Class A space /2
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 05:10:28PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> > Announcing a covering /20 along with the regional more specifics I have
> > will only serve to increase the size of the routing table for most
> > backbones, and lead to sub o
Unless you are in "the swamp" - the old Class C, where I believe that
they do accept /24's.
Regards
Marshall Eubanks
Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 05:10:28PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
>>http://info.us.bb.verio.net/routing.html#PeerFilter
>>
>>It seems if I were
This is really old news...actually, I seem to recall that they would only
accept /19 or shorter prefixes from former Class A & B space...I pressed
Sprint for a /21 from the swamp (instead of the former Class A space /21
they initially assigned) because of Verio's policy, in fact. They must
have
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 05:10:28PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> http://info.us.bb.verio.net/routing.html#PeerFilter
>
> It seems if I were one of their customers they would accept my
> 66.11.168/23 announcement and re-announce it to their peers, but they
> won't accept it from any of their
http://info.us.bb.verio.net/routing.html#PeerFilter
It seems if I were one of their customers they would accept my
66.11.168/23 announcement and re-announce it to their peers, but they
won't accept it from any of their peers.
Announcing a covering /20 along with the regional more specifics I ha
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