Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Paul Ferguson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > > IP-address issues can't get solved without policy changes, which > happen today via community consensus. Domain-name issues have to get > hammered out from the top down (with some policy

Re: FYI, new USG Cybersecurity Coordinator ...

2009-12-22 Thread Christopher Morrow
(again, this seems really off topic, but) On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 7:33 PM, andrew.wallace wrote: > though Gadi is Israeli and Marcus Sachs Pakistani and couldn't be marcus is pakistani?

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 2:05 AM, Paul Ferguson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Christopher Morrow > wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Paul Ferguson >> wrote: > >>> Folks should not be so obtuse about these activities. It's

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Paul Ferguson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Paul Ferguson > wrote: >> Folks should not be so obtuse about these activities. It's almost >> blatantly in-your-face, so to speak. These guys have no fe

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Paul Ferguson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Folks should not be so obtuse about these activities. It's almost blatantly > in-your-face, so to speak. These guys have no fear of retribution. no real arguement, but... 'please provide so

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Paul Ferguson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Alex Lanstein wrote: > I might as well reply to this here. The folks from threatpost had me > talk at length about the various issues with doing cybercrime enforcement > and how things have changed, and they picked t

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 22/12/2009 23:36, Jon Lewis wrote: >> So, if you're not multihomed with jump.ro as one of your providers, is 'multihomed' here could mean: "we have an IPSEC vpn, we need to use globally unique ip space, we may have exit points (and have s

Re: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread Joel Jaeggli
George Bonser wrote: > We have decided to initiate the process of becoming IPv6 capable. We > have requested and received a block of addresses which, after reading > some of the discussion here, I fear may be too small to suit our needs > (a /48). To better understand how to proceed and in an a

RE: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Alex Lanstein
I might as well reply to this here. The folks from threatpost had me talk at length about the various issues with doing cybercrime enforcement and how things have changed, and they picked that section for their post. My key point I wanted to hammer home was that most of the modern botnets (and

RE: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread George Bonser
> -Original Message- > From: eric clark > I'm not an expert, but can/should you advertise ARIN IP space on APNIC > or RIPE, etc ? You are talking about having recieved ip space from > ARIN, tied to an ARIN AS I suppose it's probably more a matter of > form than anything else though

Re: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread Nathan Ward
On 23/12/2009, at 4:04 PM, Shane Ronan wrote: I'm not an expert, but can/should you advertise ARIN IP space on APNIC or RIPE, etc ? You are talking about having recieved ip space from ARIN, tied to an ARIN AS I suppose it's probably more a matter of form than anything else though. T

Re: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread Shane Ronan
> I'm not an expert, but can/should you advertise ARIN IP space on APNIC > or RIPE, etc ? You are talking about having recieved ip space from > ARIN, tied to an ARIN AS I suppose it's probably more a matter of > form than anything else though. This happens all the time with IPv4 space and

Re: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread Nathan Ward
On 23/12/2009, at 3:52 PM, George Bonser wrote: If you can justify getting a /32, then I suggest you do so, but if not then don't worry, a /48 will work just fine. The networks that do filter you will pretty soon adapt I expect. I can't in good conscience justify a /32. That is just too muc

Re: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread eric clark
I'm not an expert, but can/should you advertise ARIN IP space on APNIC or RIPE, etc ? You are talking about having recieved ip space from ARIN, tied to an ARIN AS I suppose it's probably more a matter of form than anything else though. On Tuesday, December 22, 2009, Nathan Ward wrote: >

RE: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread George Bonser
> -Original Message- > From: Nathan Ward [mailto:na...@daork.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 6:34 PM > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc. > > The assumption that networks will filter /48s is not the whole story. ... > You will find that most

Re: IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread Nathan Ward
The assumption that networks will filter /48s is not the whole story. The RIRs giving out /48s do so from a single pool that only contains / 48 assignments. The RIRs give out /32s from a pool containing /32 or shorter prefixes (ie /31, /30, etc. etc). You will find that most networks filteri

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Suresh Ramasubramanian
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > Christopher Morrow wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: >> >> >>> Should US based networks be willing to route RIPE "ASSIGNED PA" space >>> customers provide? > > Are any of your customers multinationals? What would yo

IPv6 allocations, deaggregation, etc.

2009-12-22 Thread George Bonser
We have decided to initiate the process of becoming IPv6 capable. We have requested and received a block of addresses which, after reading some of the discussion here, I fear may be too small to suit our needs (a /48). To better understand how to proceed and in an attempt to get it right (or clos

Re: FYI, new USG Cybersecurity Coordinator ...

2009-12-22 Thread andrew.wallace
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 7:09 AM,   wrote: > >> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:42:18 CST, Jorge Amodio said: >>> http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/12/22/introducing-new-cybersecurity- >>> coordinat

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Leo Vegoda
On 22/12/2009 3:36, "Jon Lewis" wrote: [...] > They may be. I don't agree that it's relevant. You can disagree with the > RIPE wording or with RIPE policies, or maybe I'm misinterpreting > > ASSIGNED PA: This address space has been assigned to an End User for use > with services provided

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Nick Hilliard
On 22/12/2009 23:36, Jon Lewis wrote: > On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Joel Jaeggli wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: Should US based networks be willing to route RIPE "ASSIGNED PA" space customers provide? I would argue not and the bofh in me would be inclined to announ

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Jon Lewis
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Joel Jaeggli wrote: Should US based networks be willing to route RIPE "ASSIGNED PA" space customers provide? Are any of your customers multinationals? They may be. I don't agree that it's relevant. You can disagree with the RIPE wording or with RIPE policies, or maybe

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Joel Jaeggli
Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: > > >> Should US based networks be willing to route RIPE "ASSIGNED PA" space >> customers provide? Are any of your customers multinationals? > this is an interesting question, which when I worked for an ISP I > alw

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: > Should US based networks be willing to route RIPE "ASSIGNED PA" space > customers provide? this is an interesting question, which when I worked for an ISP I always wondered about. In fact, when we'd see solely based US customers asking for thi

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Jon Lewis
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Phil Regnauld wrote: http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/attackers-buying-own-data-centers-botnets-spam-122109 It this something new ? The article seems to mix various issues together. And this would seem highly inefficient to me compared to traditional botnets (renting your

Re: FYI, new USG Cybersecurity Coordinator ...

2009-12-22 Thread Paul Ferguson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 7:09 AM, wrote: > On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:42:18 CST, Jorge Amodio said: >> http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/12/22/introducing-new-cybersecurity- >> coordinator/?e=23&ref=image > > "Meet the new boss / Same as the old boss"

Re: news from Google

2009-12-22 Thread Jorge Amodio
>> Bill Gates has made a commitment to basically give away all of his money and >> quit MS to devote full time to doing it. It will be a hard act to follow. > > this is all great stuff, but unrelated to network operations. Off to > another list pls? Unless the Gates Foundation and Google wish to s

Re: news from Google

2009-12-22 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Bruce Williams wrote: > Bill Gates has made a commitment to basically give away all of his money and > quit MS to devote full time to doing it. It will be a hard act to follow. this is all great stuff, but unrelated to network operations. Off to another list pls?

Re: news from Google

2009-12-22 Thread Bruce Williams
Bill Gates has made a commitment to basically give away all of his money and quit MS to devote full time to doing it. It will be a hard act to follow. On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:03 AM, JC Dill wrote: > Hank Nussbacher wrote: > >> >> Google makes about $1.5B profit per quarter. $20M of charity?

Re: FYI, new USG Cybersecurity Coordinator ...

2009-12-22 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:44:09 CST, "Brandon M. Lapointe" said: > municipal, county, and some state offices are requiring network > engineers to be licensed SE's (Software Engineers) under the authority > of the Texas Board of Professional Engineers. Except it's not actually very clear that Softwar

Re: news from Google

2009-12-22 Thread JC Dill
Hank Nussbacher wrote: Google makes about $1.5B profit per quarter. $20M of charity? I don't like MS any more than most, but Gates Foundation has received $20B from Bill and Warren over the past 3 years. My hat goes off to those guys! Yes, the Gates Foundation gives a lot of money to wo

please help - survey on network operations costs

2009-12-22 Thread Nick Feamster
Hello, We are developing a tool that helps ISPs optimize for cost when making decisions about both internal routing and interconnection for planning and traffic management. To develop the underlying algorithms, we need a better sense of how various factors contribute to an ISP's overall operation

RE: FYI, new USG Cybersecurity Coordinator ...

2009-12-22 Thread Brandon M. Lapointe
Personally, I have been seeing much more of a substantive push in this arena than in times past, owing mostly to the large umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security. As an example here in Texas - municipal, county, and some state offices are requiring network engineers to be licensed SE's (So

Re: FYI, new USG Cybersecurity Coordinator ...

2009-12-22 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:42:18 CST, Jorge Amodio said: > http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/12/22/introducing-new-cybersecurity-coordinator/?e=23&ref=image "Meet the new boss / Same as the old boss" -- The Who, "Won't Get Fooled Again". Do we have any indication that anything has been changed this

Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 23, Issue 82

2009-12-22 Thread Rodriguez, Mauricio
Any time mobile. Regards, Mauricio Rodriguez Manager of IP/Data Engineering, FPL FiberNet Email: mauricio.rodrig...@fpl.com Office: 305-552-3418 Mobile: 786-236-2665 Pager: 786-236-2665 Sent using BlackBerry - Original Message - From: nanog-requ...@nanog.org To: nanog@nanog.org Sent:

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Suresh Ramasubramanian
With the added refinement of spammer / botmaster controlled LIRs .. after spammer / botmaster controlled registrars. I did wonder sometimes how some snowshoe spammers could keep acquiring a series of /20 to /15 sized CIDRs over the past year or two. On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Tony Finch wro

FYI, new USG Cybersecurity Coordinator ...

2009-12-22 Thread Jorge Amodio
FYI, http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/12/22/introducing-new-cybersecurity-coordinator/?e=23&ref=image

Re: how it routes and network question

2009-12-22 Thread Kieran Murphy
Or these are VPS', and not physical Servers. >From my brief encounters with various VPS technologies, this makes more sense. Regards, Kieran. On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Bruce Forster wrote: > I should add; i guess i made some assumption that you were co-locating your > own servers with

Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Tony Finch
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Phil Regnauld wrote: > http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/attackers-buying-own-data-centers-botnets-spam-122109 > > It this something new ? The article seems to mix various issues together. > And this would seem highly inefficient to me compared to traditional > botnets (renti

RE: how it routes and network question

2009-12-22 Thread Bruce Forster
I should add; i guess i made some assumption that you were co-locating your own servers with someone, if this isn't the case, please ignore everything i'v said ;) -bruce -Original Message- From: Truman Boyes [mailto:tru...@suspicious.org] Sent: Tuesday, 22 December 2009 10:47 PM To: Der

RE: how it routes and network question

2009-12-22 Thread Bruce Forster
Yes. I think the netmask should be 255.255.255.255 1/ but why they are using this netmask setting? save ip address? then does the router handle many routes in this setting? I have no idea the only way you can have a /32 is with a ppp that doesn’t use arps to talk to each end of the tunnel. I wou

Re: how it routes and network question

2009-12-22 Thread Truman Boyes
Hi, your "hosting company" is likely NAT'ing or using load balancers on the front end. You are obviously not "reaching" those machines by ssh'ing into 192.168.x.x... Additionally, assuming that DHCP is handing out that address on the server that mask would likely not be all ones. Even Amazon E

Re: how it routes and network question

2009-12-22 Thread Deric Kwok
Hi Bruce Thank you so much to explain me in detail. I would like to know about this it in case i can get another hosting company Yes. I think the netmask should be 255.255.255.255 1/ but why they are using this netmask setting? save ip address? then does the router handle many routes in this set

Article on spammers and their infrastructure

2009-12-22 Thread Phil Regnauld
http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/attackers-buying-own-data-centers-botnets-spam-122109 It this something new ? The article seems to mix various issues together. And this would seem highly inefficient to me compared to traditional botnets (renting your own rack for a botnet doesn't really make se

Re: news from Google

2009-12-22 Thread Jay Ess
William Hamilton wrote: Jay Ess wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundation Whilst it may have been established by one of the Microsoft founders, what does that have to do with Microsoft's corporate charitable giving? I would guess that the money originally comes from

Re: news from Google

2009-12-22 Thread William Hamilton
Jay Ess wrote: Jorge Amodio wrote: Another one from the "Evil Doer" http://www.google.com/advertising/holiday2009/ Wish the guys from Redmond and others copy this action too ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundation Whilst it may have been established by one of t

Re: news from Google

2009-12-22 Thread Jay Ess
Jorge Amodio wrote: Another one from the "Evil Doer" http://www.google.com/advertising/holiday2009/ Wish the guys from Redmond and others copy this action too ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundation