Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Charles N Wyble
On 09/17/2011 06:52 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: >>> I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using >>> about a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream >>> is refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their >>> own, and give back the space to the upst

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Sep 17, 2011, at 3:01 AM, Charles N Wyble wrote: > One aspect of my network, will be operational transparency. So as much as > possible will be viewable in real time. This includes v4/v6 traffic > statistics. These books are required reading, IMHO:

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Randy Carpenter" > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using about > a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream is > refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their own, and > give back the space to the up

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Carpenter
> > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using > > about a /21 and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream > > is refusing to give them more space, so they wanted to get their > > own, and give back the space to the upstream, with the possible > > exception of a sma

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
>>> From: Randy Bush >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] NAT444 rumors (was Re: Looking for an IPv6 >>> naysayer...) >>> Date: February 21, 2011 9:00:50 PM EST >>> To: Dan Wing >>> Cc: 'NANOG list' , 'ARIN-PPML List' >>> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-donley-nat444-impacts-01 Tha

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
>> From: Randy Bush >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] NAT444 rumors (was Re: Looking for an IPv6 >> naysayer...) >> Date: February 21, 2011 9:00:50 PM EST >> To: Dan Wing >> Cc: 'NANOG list' , 'ARIN-PPML List' >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-donley-nat444-impacts-01 >>> That docume

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> Strange... You seem to overcome it well enough to join in the >>> discussion on PPML, but not to actual propose changes to policy. >> i believe you are mistaken. i am not knowingly a subscriber to ppml, >> and am not, to the best of my knowledge

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
>> rick adams was right. this could be done very minimally with some >> software and maybe six to ten folk to back it up. gedanken experiment. instead of frelling up whois, printing comic books, and playing weenie regulators, design and describe an rir with a sign on the door which says "inter

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:23 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> Randy - If you wish to propose an alternative which accomplishes the >> mission in a different manner, feel free to do so. The community has >> every opportunity and right to accomplish unique Internet number >> administration as it sees fit. > > r

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
>>> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, >>> remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for >>> numbers >> silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is >> self-perpetuating. > Randy - If you wish to propose an alternati

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
>> Strange... You seem to overcome it well enough to join in the >> discussion on PPML, but not to actual propose changes to policy. > i believe you are mistaken. i am not knowingly a subscriber to ppml, > and am not, to the best of my knowledge, participating in any > discussion(s) there. a sea

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, >> remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for >> numbers > > silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is > self-perpetuating.

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
>>> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks >>> participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired >>> through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks >>> don't care to learn the current policies and participate in >>> the policy development process, they

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 17, 2011, at 5:06 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks >> participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired >> through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks >> don't care to learn the current policies and participate in

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
> I have absolutely no doubt that there are sufficient folks > participating in NANOG to get nearly any policy desired > through the ARIN policy process. To the extent that folks > don't care to learn the current policies and participate in > the policy development process, they end u

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
> One more reason we can all do ourselves a favor by moving to ipv6, > remove the number scarcity issue and associated baggage of begging for > numbers silly hope. we created monopoly organizations. this kind of thing is self-perpetuating. randy

Re: Traceroute losses through NYC1.gblx.net?

2011-09-17 Thread Joel jaeggli
On 9/16/11 11:42 , Steve Bohrer wrote: > My general question is "what meaning do I give to lossy traceroutes, > even when pings show no problem." > > Can I expect that backbone routers should never give me timeouts on a > traceroute through them, so, lots of asterisks from these systems > indicate

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Charles N Wyble
On 09/17/2011 01:19 PM, John Curran wrote: On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently getting brand new v6 space for a brand new network i

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Owen DeLong
On Sep 17, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > - Original Message - >> All of the speculation and comment on this thread has been something >> to watch, but, it's not actually all that accurate. >> >> https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four2 >> >> NRPM 4.2 provides several

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Owen DeLong
On Sep 17, 2011, at 11:19 AM, John Curran wrote: > On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: >> >> 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into >> some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently >> getting brand new v6 space for a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 17, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > I have a small ISP customer who is not multi-homed, and is using about a /21 > and a half of space, and is expanding. Their upstream is refusing to give > them more space, so they wanted to get their own, and give back the space to > the ups

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 16, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: > > 2) Obtain ipv6 space from ARIN (inquired about getting space and ran into > some issues. need to speak with my co founder and get details. evidently > getting brand new v6 space for a brand new network is fairly difficult. for > now may ju

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Carpenter
- Original Message - > All of the speculation and comment on this thread has been something > to watch, but, it's not actually all that accurate. > > https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four2 > > NRPM 4.2 provides several ways in which an ISP can qualify for space > > As has been ment

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 17, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> Yes. If you want PI space, you have to start off with PA space, >>> utilize it, and then apply for PI space and an AS #, with contracts >>> demonstrating your intention to multihome. Then, you have to >>> *migrate* off the PA space and surrender

Re: ouch..

2011-09-17 Thread Chris Woodfield
Or..."Go ahead and keep buying 6509 chassis, the 7600 brand is just a marketing thing" -C On Sep 14, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Leigh Porter wrote: > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Always Learning [mailto:na...@u61.u22.net] >> Sent: 14 September 2011 14:39 >> To: N. Max Pierson >> Cc: nanog@

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Owen DeLong
All of the speculation and comment on this thread has been something to watch, but, it's not actually all that accurate. https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four2 NRPM 4.2 provides several ways in which an ISP can qualify for space As has been mentioned in this thread, efficiently using a PA a

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Cameron Byrne
On Sep 17, 2011 10:41 AM, "Randy Bush" wrote: > > As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You > have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another > provider. > >>> does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market > >>> entry? > >> Yes.

Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?

2011-09-17 Thread John Curran
On Sep 17, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Michael Sinatra wrote: >> One approach would be the use of an option flag on the query to obtain >> the new hierarchical output No flag = no output change. Would that >> suffice? > > I think this would be a good way to proceed. John, has this been suggested > as

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Randy Bush
As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another provider. >>> does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market >>> entry? >> Yes. If you want PI space, you have to start off with PA space, >>

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Blake Dunlap
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 12:06, Joel jaeggli wrote: > . > > The ARIN community is easily it's own worst enemy. > > Not to mention the difficulty of actually getting a provider to let you announce their PA IP space to other providers if you already are / want multihoming. I just got turned down by

Re: wet-behind-the-ears whippersnapper seeking advice on building a nationwide network

2011-09-17 Thread Joel jaeggli
On 9/16/11 13:50 , Nathan Eisenberg wrote: >>> As an ISP, ARIN will not give you any space if you are new. You >>> have to already have an equivalent amount of space from another >>> provider. >> >> does arin *really* still have that amazing barrier to market >> entry? > > Yes. If you want PI sp

Re: ouch..

2011-09-17 Thread Joel jaeggli
On 9/14/11 14:24 , Don Gould wrote: > * Did you know that Cisco has a 100Gb solution? need more L3 1u TORs with 4 x 40 and 48 x 10...

Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ?

2011-09-17 Thread Michael Sinatra
On 09/16/11 08:35, John Curran wrote: On Sep 16, 2011, at 10:17 AM, Leigh Porter wrote: -Original Message- From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] Sent: 16 September 2011 16:05 To: John Curran Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Disappointing ARIN - A great advertisement for the USA ? If you

Re: Re: IPV6 over a PPTP Link

2011-09-17 Thread gdxnfx
Maybe you can try,i am not sure it will work or not, i don't have the lab to test the script at this moment. aaa attribute list IPV6 attribute type addrv6 "DHCPv6POOL" protocol ipv6 ! username ipv6 privilege 0 password ipv6 username ipv6 aaa attribute list IPV6 ! Terry 发件人： Jared Mauch 发送

Re: HP A-series, H3C, Huawei and their capabilities in real-life

2011-09-17 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011, Mark Smith wrote: Does Huawei still sell (wired) routers under their own brand? Yes. See NE40E/NE80E/NE5000E. The price of these boxes is quite attractive, but there are lots of buts. For example, how much do they have in common with Huawei boxes? Traditionally HP netwo

Re: HP A-series, H3C, Huawei and their capabilities in real-life

2011-09-17 Thread Mark Smith
My apologies for using gmail. Company policy prohibits the use of corporate email and identity. Nobody has heard nothing? Hear no evil… ;) What we basically have at this point is vendor specifications, sales talk and rumors that big boys have built large networks using these boxes (or predecessor