Re: DDoS Attacks Cause of Game Servers

2013-01-30 Thread Shahab Vahabzadeh
Those ip addresses I send were only sample, its 5 page :D and not only those addresses. And you are looking to target 128.141.X.Y its mine and I change it because of mailing list, maybe attackers are here. You must check the sources not destination. Thanks On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jeroen

Re: DDoS Attacks Cause of Game Servers

2013-01-30 Thread clayton
I see these type of reflection/amplification attacks pretty frequently. Some games (mostly older games) are exploitable in this manner. The attacker sends a short spoofed request, and the game server sends back a huge chunk of data aimed at you. The chances of you finding the actual source are

Re: Juniper MX10 and dual stack BGP

2013-01-30 Thread Saku Ytti
On (2013-01-30 21:06 -0500), David Miller wrote: > According to Juniper, the MX uses separate memory for v4 and v6. Where do they state this? MX is ambiguous, what matters is linecard HW. > The numbers that I have seen for MX80 are: I.e. trio. No. Trio uses flat RLDRAM, and any IPv6 route insta

DDoS Attacks Cause of Game Servers

2013-01-30 Thread Shahab Vahabzadeh
Hi everybody, Last two days I was under an interesting attack which comes from multiple sources to three of my ADSL users destination. The attack make router to ran out of CPU and we had to reload it to solve. I ask those three users and they said we are only game players and all of them were kids,

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013, Miles Fidelman wrote: It's a matter of economies of scale. If everyone has to light their own fiber, you haven't saved that much. If the fiber is lit, at L2, and charged back on a cost-recovery basis, then there are tremendous economies of scale. The examples that come to

Re: ONT diagnostics (WAS: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?)

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
Why do you always assume we're talking about carriers, or the evil telcos, RBOC's, etc? I'm talking about small to medium-sized service providers looking to expand services to compete against the Comcast's and AT&T's of the world that can practically give away Internet because they already own

Re: ONT diagnostics (WAS: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?)

2013-01-30 Thread Randy Bush
> Some in the industry are pushing the idea of reaching deeper into the > customer's network to provide more value, to generate more revenue and how sadly desperate. crawl up the stack. carriers who whine about content going over the top need to get their heads out of the somethingorother. if

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
> When I get a Cisco router with an integrated CSU and the telco sends a > loop-up my device does it. No reason the same can't be done with > ethernet, other than no demand today. But your router isn't where the Telco's responsibility ends. It ends back at the card with the blinky-lights on it, u

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jan 30, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > [ One of a batch of replies to today's traffic; I was busy yanking a > 750GB drive out of the grave all day. --jra ] > > - Original Message - >> From: "Owen DeLong" > > [ me: ] >>> It rings true to me, in general, and I would go that

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread John Osmon
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:22:43PM -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote: > VZF's ONTs can't even do *ARP* right, or at least they couldn't as of > last March. We expect them to do v6? Perfect! We don't *need* ARP for v6!

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
Working in a mixed TDM and IP world, it's such a stark difference between freely available RFCs and $900 per pop Telcordia docs. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > - Original Message - > > From: "Jason Baugher" > > > I can't vouch for these yet, since I haven't us

Re: Suggestions for the future on your web site: (was cookies, and

2013-01-30 Thread Jean-Francois Mezei
Saw this on the BBC web site thought about this discussion: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21260007 Ticketmaster dumps 'hated' Captcha verification system The world's largest online ticket retailer is to stop requiring users to enter hard-to-read words in order to prove they are human. (B

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Jason Baugher" > I can't vouch for these yet, since I haven't used one so far. > http://www.calix.com/systems/p-series/calix_residential_services_gateways.html Yeah; see my other reply a few minutes ago. > It looks to be a Broadband Forum spec, > http://en.

Calix optics for Muni

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
The box Jason was telling me about was the Calix 836GE, which, Leo, will make you happy cause it's a router/wifi/bridge with what looks to me like a Duplex-LC connector on the back. Its companion is their E7-20, a 20-slot chassis that will do (presently) 480 home-run ports or 10k GPONs in what loo

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
I can't vouch for these yet, since I haven't used one so far. http://www.calix.com/systems/p-series/calix_residential_services_gateways.html It looks to be a Broadband Forum spec, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-069. I'm not using it yet either, but find it interesting. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Jason Baugher" > Calix is producing an Active Ethernet ONT combined with residential > gateway router. I believe it also supports TR-069 for remote management. I'll check it out. Thanks. I assume that's TR-TSY-069, a Telcordia standard? > One other thing

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Leo Bicknell wrote: > In a message written on Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 08:27:27PM -0500, Jay > Ashworth wrote: > > You're assuming there, I think, that residential customers will have > > mini-GBIC ports on their routers, which has not been my experience. :-) > > The

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Mark Andrews
In message <8c10ded0-0980-4c76-8307-4f4f139d6...@yahoo.com>, David Barak writes : > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:52 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > Firstly fix your mail client. What's this "'" garbage in text/plain? > > > That's yahoo web mail on an iPhone, sorry. > > > Deployment Update > > > > P

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, David Barak wrote: On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:52 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: The update you sent is lovely, except I can tell you that the one (also an Arris, running DOCSIS 3.0) which was installed in late October in my house in Washington simply does not run v6 with the pre-inst

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Justin M. Streiner" > I know Verizon is rolling out v6 in some areas of their FiOS footprint. > The router they provided supports it, but what I got from their customer > service people was that they ran into some sort of issue with their TV > set-top boxes w

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Leo Bicknell" > The Cable Modem is in many ways very similar to a FTTH ONT. It takes > one media (cable, fiber), does some processing, provides some security > and a test point to the provider, and then hands off ethernet to the > customer. A majority of cust

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, David Barak wrote: Comcast removed the "no IPv6" excuse? That removal somehow skipped my house in Washington DC where they installed (last October) a router which does not even support it (an Arrus voice gateway- the one where you can't turn of the crummy 2.4g wireless ra

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:00:47PM -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote: > > That can be fixed in other ways. It would be easy to make a standard > > SNMP mib or something that the service provider could poll from the > > customer gateway, and service providers could require compatable >

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 09:37:24AM -0500, Art Plato wrote: > While I agree in principle. The reality is, from my perspective is that the > entities providing the services will fall back to the original position that > prompted us to build in the first place. Provide a minimal

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Leo Bicknell" > In a message written on Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 08:27:27PM -0500, Jay > Ashworth wrote: > > You're assuming there, I think, that residential customers will have > > mini-GBIC ports on their routers, which has not been my experience. > > :-) > >

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 08:27:27PM -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote: > You're assuming there, I think, that residential customers will have > mini-GBIC ports on their routers, which has not been my experience. :-) They don't today because there is no demand for such a feature. My

Re: ONT diagnostics (WAS: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?)

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "joel jaeggli" > We're totally at the wrong end of the usability specrum if we even have > to ask questions like this. you can tell of a cable modem is online or > not at a glance. *You* can tell. That does not mean the *customer* can tell. That was the poi

Re: ONT diagnostics (WAS: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?)

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
Some in the industry are pushing the idea of reaching deeper into the customer's network to provide more value, to generate more revenue and more stickiness. Don't stop at the ONT, use something like TR-069 to manage the customer's gateway device. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:50 PM, joel jaeggli wr

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Art Plato" > That is actually one of the big picture scenarios we are reviewing, > with the ISP component being the last to go if there is a fair and > competitive market the arises for our constituents. We won't allow the > return of the old monopoly play th

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Art Plato" > My director believes that we would better serve our community by being > the layer 1 or 2 provider rather than the service provider. While I > agree in principle. The reality is, from my perspective is that the > entities providing the services w

Looking for contact at COGENT routing team

2013-01-30 Thread tglassey
I am looking for a contact at Cogent's route management team if you have one? Todd -- Regards TSG "Ex-Cruce-Leo" //Confidential Mailing - Please destroy this if you are not the intended recipient.

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Jason Baugher" > right-of-way, property tax incentives, etc... There's nothing wrong > with > the concept of a single entity building out the infrastructure for > others > to lease on a wholesale basis, I just don't think that entity should > be a > governmen

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Leo Bicknell" > To put that in patch panel racks, 10,368 households * 6 fibers per > house (3 pair) / 864 per rack = 72 racks of patch panels. Using a > relatively generous for 2-post patch panels 20sq feet per rack it > would be 1,440 sq feet of colo space t

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Jason Baugher" > There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct, can be brought > into a colo space, etc... I haven't seen much mention of how much space the > termination in the colo would take, such as splice trays, bulkheads, etc... > Someone earl

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "William Herrin" > As long as they support open peering they can probably operate at > layer 3 without harm. Tough to pitch a muni on spending tax revenue > for something that's not a complete product usable directly by the > taxpayers. That's one problem, ye

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread David Barak
On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:52 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > Firstly fix your mail client. What's this "'" garbage in text/plain? > That's yahoo web mail on an iPhone, sorry. > Deployment Update > > Published on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 > > IPv6 has been launched on all Arris DOCSIS 3.0 C4 CMTSes,

Re: Juniper MX10 and dual stack BGP

2013-01-30 Thread David Miller
On 1/30/2013 5:16 PM, Justin M. Streiner wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Christopher Rogers wrote: > >> Does anyone have any sort of performance numbers for the jnpr MX10 series >> running dual stack ipv4/ipv6? I'm specifically interested in how many >> BGP >> prefixes it can handle in dual stack

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Jean-Francois Mezei" > On 13-01-29 22:03, Leo Bicknell wrote: > > > The _muni_ should not run any equipment colo of any kind. The muni > > MMR should be fiber only, and not even require so much as a generator > > to work. It should not need to be staffed 24x

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Jean-Francois Mezei" > On 13-01-29 19:39, Jay Ashworth wrote: > > > It rings true to me, in general, and I would go that way... but > > there is > > a sting in that tail: Can I reasonably expect that Road Runner will > > in fact > > be technically equipped a

Re: ONT diagnostics (WAS: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?)

2013-01-30 Thread joel jaeggli
On 1/30/13 5:01 PM, Jake Khuon wrote: On Wed 30 Jan 2013 16:58:28 PST, John Osmon wrote: Does anyone make an ONT with a blinky light that you can toggle on/off remotely? It'd be great to say: Go look at the "it works" light. If the remote tech can control the light, the end user would have

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Leo Bicknell" > I don't know of any residential telco services (pots, ISDN BRI, or > DSL) that has an active handoff they can test to without a truck > roll. FiOS and anyone else who's doing triple play from an ONT. :-) > I don't know of any cable services

Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Leo Bicknell" > In a message written on Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 07:11:56PM -0800, Owen > DeLong wrote: > > I believe they should be allowed to optionally provide L2 enabled > > services of various > > forms. > > Could you expand on why you think this is necessa

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - > From: "Leo Bicknell" > In a message written on Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 02:14:46PM -0800, Owen > DeLong wrote: > > The MMR should, IMHO be a colo facility where service providers can > > lease racks if they choose. The colo should also be operated on a cost > > recovery

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
[ One of a batch of replies to today's traffic; I was busy yanking a 750GB drive out of the grave all day. --jra ] - Original Message - > From: "Owen DeLong" [ me: ] > > It rings true to me, in general, and I would go that way... but > > there is > > a sting in that tail: Can I reasonabl

Re: ONT diagnostics (WAS: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?)

2013-01-30 Thread Jake Khuon
On Wed 30 Jan 2013 16:58:28 PST, John Osmon wrote: Does anyone make an ONT with a blinky light that you can toggle on/off remotely? It'd be great to say: Go look at the "it works" light. If the remote tech can control the light, the end user would have a better idea that the upstream provid

ONT diagnostics (WAS: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?)

2013-01-30 Thread John Osmon
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 07:53:34PM -0800, Owen DeLong wrote: [...] > It really isn't. You'd be surprised how many uncompensated truck rolls > are eliminated every day by being able to talk to the ONT from the > help desk and tell the subscriber "Well, I can manage your ONT and > it's pretty clear t

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Mark Andrews
In message <1359591223.5270.yahoomailmob...@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, David Barak writes: > Comcast removed the "no IPv6" excuse? That removal somehow skipped my house > in Washington DC where they installed (last October) a router which does not > even support it (an Arrus voice gateway-

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread David Barak
Comcast removed the "no IPv6" excuse? That removal somehow skipped my house in Washington DC where they installed (last October) a router which does not even support it (an Arrus voice gateway- the one where you can't turn of the crummy 2.4g wireless radio) and none of the folks I've spoken to

Time warner cable contact

2013-01-30 Thread Emil Fredriksson
Hi Could someone from TWC contact me off list please. Trying to diagnose an issue where TWC customers can not reach my network. Much appreciated //Emil

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Mark Andrews
In message <51099c0f.5040...@mtcc.com>, Michael Thomas writes: > On 01/30/2013 01:51 PM, Cutler James R wrote: > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:43 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: > > > >> As a product of having a motorola sb6121 and a netgear wndr3700 both of wh > ich I bought at frys I have ipv6 in my house w

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Michael Thomas
On 01/30/2013 01:51 PM, Cutler James R wrote: On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:43 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: As a product of having a motorola sb6121 and a netgear wndr3700 both of which I bought at frys I have ipv6 in my house with dhcp pd curtesy of commcast. If it was any simpler somebody else would h

Re: Juniper MX10 and dual stack BGP

2013-01-30 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Christopher Rogers wrote: Does anyone have any sort of performance numbers for the jnpr MX10 series running dual stack ipv4/ipv6? I'm specifically interested in how many BGP prefixes it can handle in dual stacked mode. I've got an environment currently taking 4 full ipv4 t

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
Sorry Owen, but I live in Illinois. Government corruption is a way of life here. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:33 AM, Jason Baugher wrote: > > > There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct, can be brought > > into a colo space, etc.

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread John Levine
>The other thing I find interesting about this entire thread is the >assumption by most that a government entity would do a good job as a >layer-1 or -2 provider and would be more efficient than a private company. >Governments, including municipalities, are notorious for corruption, fraud, >waste -

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:47 PM, William Herrin wrote: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:24 AM, William Herrin wrote: >>> As long as they support open peering they can probably operate at >>> layer 3 without harm. Tough to pitch a muni on spending tax r

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread Cutler James R
On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:43 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: > As a product of having a motorola sb6121 and a netgear wndr3700 both of which > I bought at frys I have ipv6 in my house with dhcp pd curtesy of commcast. If > it was any simpler somebody else would have had to install it. > Except that Appl

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Eric Brunner-Williams
On 1/30/13 6:33 AM, Jason Baugher wrote: > The other thing I find interesting about this entire thread is the > assumption by most that a government entity would ... could we agree that contract management is a problem inherent and not abandon an engineering discussion, which includes economics, t

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:36 PM, Jean-Francois Mezei wrote: > On 13-01-30 15:49, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> 1. They are not allowed to sell L3+ services. >> 2. They are not allowed to own any portion of any L3+ service provider. >> 3. They must sell their L1/L2 services to any L3+ service provi

Juniper MX10 and dual stack BGP

2013-01-30 Thread Christopher Rogers
Does anyone have any sort of performance numbers for the jnpr MX10 series running dual stack ipv4/ipv6? I'm specifically interested in how many BGP prefixes it can handle in dual stacked mode. I've got an environment currently taking 4 full ipv4 tables and a smattering of prefixes coming from a p

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread William Herrin
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:24 AM, William Herrin wrote: >> As long as they support open peering they can probably operate at >> layer 3 without harm. Tough to pitch a muni on spending tax revenue >> for something that's not a complete product usabl

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jean-Francois Mezei
On 13-01-30 15:49, Owen DeLong wrote: > 1.They are not allowed to sell L3+ services. > 2.They are not allowed to own any portion of any L3+ service provider. > 3.They must sell their L1/L2 services to any L3+ service provider on > equal terms. This is the problem we have in Can

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:24 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: >> - Original Message - >>> From: "Jean-Francois Mezei" >> >>> It is in fact important for a government (municipal, state/privince or >>> federal) to stay at a last mile layer 2 s

Re: IPV6 in enterprise best practices/white papaers

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
The smarter way to do this is to assign a /64 to each host and route to it instead of exporting any L2 issues beyond the TOR switch. In general, WLANs don't scale to large numbers of clients particularly well for a variety of reasons that have little to do with ND. More APs with smaller range are

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:29 AM, Leo Bicknell wrote: > In a message written on Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 08:33:35AM -0600, Jason Baugher > wrote: >> There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct, can be brought >> into a colo space, etc... I haven't seen much mention of how much space the >> t

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Art Plato
Although not technically private, this is where we see ourselves getting to if a good competitive environment fosters from the construction of the infrastructure. Again, we can't abandon our citizens to a one provider monopoly, but if a true competitive environment arose we would be quite conten

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:33 AM, Jason Baugher wrote: > There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct, can be brought > into a colo space, etc... I haven't seen much mention of how much space the > termination in the colo would take, such as splice trays, bulkheads, etc... > Someone earlie

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Art Plato
Scott, Thanks for the warning. I am planning on having those dialogues with any potential vendors, as well as ask them for active references. Art. - Original Message - From: "Scott Helms" To: "Art Plato" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:54:06 PM Subject: Re: Will

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Scott Helms
Art, In that case its even harder. Before you even consider doing open access talk to your FTTx vendor and find out how many they have done using the same architecture you're planning on deploying. Open access in an active Ethernet install is actually fairly straight forward but on a PON system

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread david peahi
The Australian NBN plan evolved because, when the Australian government put out the original RFP, the incumbent telcos wanted anti-competitive commitments in exchange for their build-out efforts (sound familiar here in the USA?). The Australian government deemed the original telco RFP replies as "n

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Art Plato
I guess I should have clarified. We are looking at an FTTP overbuild. Eventually eliminating the HFC. FTTP makes more sense long term. We are also the local electric utility. - Original Message - From: "Scott Helms" To: "Art Plato" Cc: "Peter Kristolaitis" , nanog@nanog.org Sent:

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Art Plato
That is actually one of the big picture scenarios we are reviewing, with the ISP component being the last to go if there is a fair and competitive market the arises for our constituents. We won't allow the return of the old monopoly play that existed back then. This is too vital for the growth o

Re: IPV6 in enterprise best practices/white papaers

2013-01-30 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Doug Barton wrote: On 1/28/2013 7:27 AM, Eugeniu Patrascu wrote: - configure IPv6 firewall rules (mostly a mirror of the IPv4 rulesets) Hopefully that did not included filtering ICMPv6? :) The level of IPv6 support in firewalls has been all over the place, even from v

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Tim Jackson
Having worked with lots of other municipalities who do the same thing, I think you're 100% right. The L1/L2 solutions are nice to think of, but I don't think in the end it actually works in the real world. The only time a municipality operating in the L1 space has worked well from my experience is

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Peter Kristolaitis
There isn't any reason that you couldn't offer ALL of those services. Spin off the layer 1 & 2 services as a separate entity as far as finance & legal is concerned, then treat the muni ISP as just another customer of that entity, with the same pricing and service that's offered to everyone el

Re: "Programmers can't get IPv6 thus that is why they do not have IPv6 in their applications"....

2013-01-30 Thread joel jaeggli
On 11/28/12 4:17 PM, Dobbins, Roland wrote: On Nov 29, 2012, at 3:04 AM, Tony Hain wrote: Getting the cpe vendors to ship in quantity requires the ISP engineering organizations to say in unison "we are deploying IPv6 and will only recommend products that pass testing". Do you see any evidenc

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread Art Plato
I am the administrator of a Municipally held ISP that has been providing services to our constituents for 15 years in a competitive environment with Charter. We aren't here to eliminate them, only to offer an alternative. When the Internet craze began back in the late 1990's they made it clear t

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
Ah, I said nothing about involving $BigTelcoCableCo. There are smaller companies that will do these projects, as long as they make business sense. Muni's can do things to make it more attractive, such as not charging for right-of-way, property tax incentives, etc... There's nothing wrong with the c

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread joel jaeggli
On 1/30/13 8:05 AM, Jason Baugher wrote: Oh, so all the fault belongs to the financial institutions, and there is no corruption within the government agencies themselves. Right. More like it's turtles all the way down. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:58 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: On 1/30/13 6:33 AM

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
Oh, so all the fault belongs to the financial institutions, and there is no corruption within the government agencies themselves. Right. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:58 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 1/30/13 6:33 AM, Jason Baugher wrote: > >> There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct,

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread joel jaeggli
On 1/30/13 6:33 AM, Jason Baugher wrote: There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct, can be brought into a colo space, etc... I haven't seen much mention of how much space the termination in the colo would take, such as splice trays, bulkheads, etc... Someone earlier mentioned being

Re: IPV6 in enterprise best practices/white papaers

2013-01-30 Thread joel jaeggli
On 1/30/13 6:39 AM, Harald Koch wrote: On 30 January 2013 02:39, Jussi Peltola wrote: High density virtual machine setups can have 100 VMs per host. Each VM has at least a link-local address and a routable address. This is 200 groups per port, 9600 per 48 port switch. um - let's compare apples

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
In a message written on Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 08:33:35AM -0600, Jason Baugher wrote: > There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct, can be brought > into a colo space, etc... I haven't seen much mention of how much space the > termination in the colo would take, such as splice trays, bu

Re: Google's Public DNS does DNSSEC validation

2013-01-30 Thread Tony Finch
Mick O'Rourke wrote: > In the potentially interestingly and perhaps not so positive - one of the > common EDNS tests via Google pub DNS fails. Google Public DNS's upstream behaviour is different depending on whether its client demonstrate knowledge of DNSSEC: Large EDNS buffer size with client

Re: IPV6 in enterprise best practices/white papaers

2013-01-30 Thread Harald Koch
On 30 January 2013 02:39, Jussi Peltola wrote: > High density virtual machine setups can have 100 VMs per host. Each VM > has at least a link-local address and a routable address. This is 200 > groups per port, 9600 per 48 port switch. um - let's compare apples to apples here - 100 VMs per host,

Re: Muni network ownership and the Fourth

2013-01-30 Thread Jason Baugher
There is much talk of how many fibers can fit in a duct, can be brought into a colo space, etc... I haven't seen much mention of how much space the termination in the colo would take, such as splice trays, bulkheads, etc... Someone earlier mentioned being able to have millions of fibers coming thro

Re: Google's Public DNS does DNSSEC validation

2013-01-30 Thread Mick O'Rourke
In the potentially interestingly and perhaps not so positive - one of the common EDNS tests via Google pub DNS fails. https://www.dns-oarc.net/oarc/services/replysizetest ;; ANSWER SECTION: rs.dns-oarc.net. 58 IN CNAME rst.x479.rs.dns-oarc.net. rst.x479.rs.dns-oarc.net. 57 IN CNAME rst.x488.x479.

Re: Will wholesale-only muni actually bring the boys to your yard?

2013-01-30 Thread William Herrin
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > - Original Message - >> From: "Jean-Francois Mezei" > >> It is in fact important for a government (municipal, state/privince or >> federal) to stay at a last mile layer 2 service with no retail >> offering. Wholesale only. >> >> Not o

Re: Google's Public DNS does DNSSEC validation

2013-01-30 Thread Livingood, Jason
This is very positive - I hope more recursive resolvers start to adopt DNSSEC as well. Jason On 1/29/13 3:05 AM, "Mansoor Nathani" wrote: >I guess its only a matter of time before they start validating all >requests. And more importantly returning SERVFAIL for invalid hosts. > >Mansoor > >On

BGP / ISIS route recorder advice

2013-01-30 Thread Ben Bartsch
Greetings: I work for a REN and we are looking for advice on a route recorder. We have been working with Packet Design and I absolutely love their product RouteExplorer (well, everything except the price tag). I was wondering if anyone out there in NANOG land had any suggestions or recommendatio

RE: switch 10G standalone TOR, core to DC

2013-01-30 Thread Phil Bedard
Cisco also now has the Nexus 6001 but I don't know of its ability to do BGP or support things like Netflow. 48x10GE+4x40GE in 1RU. Also likely doesn't have huge packet buffers. From: Piotr Sent: 1/30/2013 5:32 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: switch 10G standalone TOR, core to DC Someone use this s

Re: switch 10G standalone TOR, core to DC

2013-01-30 Thread Piotr
W dniu 2013-01-30 12:59, Ingo Flaschberger pisze: Am 30.01.2013 11:30, schrieb Piotr: 2. Hp 5900 af 48xg large buffer options - configurable buffers gpl 30k$ small: Memory and processor 512 MB flash, 2 GB SDRAM; packet buffer size: 9 MB http://h17007.www1.hp.com/us/en/products/switches/HP

Re: IPV6 in enterprise best practices/white papaers

2013-01-30 Thread Karl Auer
On Wed, 2013-01-30 at 10:33 +, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 30/01/2013 10:24, Karl Auer wrote: > > Hm. If you have 100 VMs per host and 48 hosts on a switch, methinks you > > should probably invest in the finest switches money can buy, and they > > will have no problem tracking that state. > > Wh

Re: IPV6 in enterprise best practices/white papaers

2013-01-30 Thread Nick Hilliard
On 30/01/2013 10:24, Karl Auer wrote: > Hm. If you have 100 VMs per host and 48 hosts on a switch, methinks you > should probably invest in the finest switches money can buy, and they > will have no problem tracking that state. What make+model switches would these be, did you say? Nick

Re: switch 10G standalone TOR, core to DC

2013-01-30 Thread Piotr
Someone use this switches ? 1. Alacatel lucent omniswitch OS6900-X40 Deep packet buffers for simultaneous high-burst absorption in all ports gpl 28k$ 2. Hp 5900 af 48xg large buffer options - configurable buffers gpl 30k$ What is, exactly, buffer size ? I can't find in documentation best,

Re: IPV6 in enterprise best practices/white papaers

2013-01-30 Thread Karl Auer
On Wed, 2013-01-30 at 09:39 +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: > High density virtual machine setups can have 100 VMs per host. OK, I see where you are coming from now. Hm. If you have 100 VMs per host and 48 hosts on a switch, methinks you should probably invest in the finest switches money can buy, an