Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

I generally believe less government is better government. But government is still necessary for a few things, such as the military. And privacy. Because privacy invasion is a crime committed in secret, so economic "voting" doesn't work. Without a law prohibiting selling of browser data, ISPs

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

As I say often. Perhaps a better way of handling things is instead of running to the government every time we get a tear in our eyes, vote with feet\wallets. Support your local independent (well, the ones that believe whatever it is you believe). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Thanks, I was a bit confused why you said it, which is apparently because I was confused. :-) I agree we need to do a better job educating users why this is important. And just so my opinion is clear, if there were a true market, I would not mind ISPs who did this (with proper notice).

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

It was more a plea to educate the list on why this matters vs. doom and gloom with a little more gloom and a little less Carmack. Instead I got more of the sky is falling. Note that I don't intend to ever do this at my ISP, nor my IX. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Mike: My guess is you do not. Which is -precisely- why the users (proletariat?) need to find a way to stop you. Hence laws & regulations. Later in this thread you said “we are done here”. Would that you were so lucky. -- TTFN, patrick > On Mar 28, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Mike Hammett

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Yeah, I think we're done here. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mel Beckman" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

What about bank robbery? Little ISPs could supplement their incomes using that immoral revenue stream too. The ends don't justify the means. Browsing history belongs to the user, not the ISP. Robbing users of this data is not justified just because it would give ISPs -- of any size -- a new

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

What about little ISPs? There are already monetization platforms out there that can be resold to small ISPs. The company sells the aggregate data upstream. Not that I would, but in a small ISP, that money makes a big difference. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Hugo, That's a great find! I note in the article: "Not only is the price of the premier service (with ads) only $70 a month, but it comes with a waiver of equipment, installation, and activation fees. The standard service without ads is $99 a month..." So that's $29 a month to let AT track

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

>Now, if ISPs want to PURCHASE browser data from customers directly, I'm >sure they'll get some takers. But that strategy has never appeared in >any business plan I've seen.

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On 3/28/17 17:17, Mel Beckman wrote: Hmmm... I hadn't heard about the $10 Internet access with no contracts and free installation. I'm pretty sure that's a complete fantasy, and that every ISP on the planet makes sure they get a tidy profit from the contract fees that lock in customers, with

Microsoft O365 labels nanog potential fraud?

Is anyone else getting this message on every nanog post today? "This sender failed our fraud detection checks and may not be who they appear to be. Learn about spoofing at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSpoofing" I don't know if this link itself is malware, as it

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Seth, Hmmm... I hadn't heard about the $10 Internet access with no contracts and free installation. I'm pretty sure that's a complete fantasy, and that every ISP on the planet makes sure they get a tidy profit from the contract fees that lock in customers, with zero advertising income. Money

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On 3/28/17 16:08, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:51:43 -0700, Seth Mattinen said: Has there ever been a real survey that asks people where they think Google gets the money to support things like Gmail for "free"? There's a difference. Google only gets to aggregate data

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

> On Mar 28, 2017, at 7:08 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:51:43 -0700, Seth Mattinen said: > >> Has there ever been a real survey that asks people where they think >> Google gets the money to support things like Gmail for "free"? > > There's a difference. Google

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: > Has there ever been a real survey that asks people where they think Google > gets the money to support things like Gmail for "free"? doesn't their 10k say: "ads" ?

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:51:43 -0700, Seth Mattinen said: > Has there ever been a real survey that asks people where they think > Google gets the money to support things like Gmail for "free"? There's a difference. Google only gets to aggregate data you pass to Google. Your ISP gets to aggregate

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On 3/28/17 12:53, Mel Beckman wrote: Quoting an Alexa spokesperson: "We don't think we did anything wrong," Alexa Chief Executive Brewster Kahle said. "But instead of going all the way through the legal process, we thought this was the easiest way to go on with our business." -- That

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Why am I supposed to care? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Rich Kulawiec" To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:45:25 PM Subject: Re: EFF Call for

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 06:45:04PM +, Mel Beckman wrote: > The claim oft presented by people favoring this customer abuse is that > the sold data is anonymous. But it's been well-established that very > simple data aggregation techniques can develop signatures that reveal > the identity of

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017, at 18:13, Brett Glass wrote: > The first step is to support > S.J. Res 34/H.J. Res 86, the Congressional resolution which would > revoke the current FCC regulations that were written and paid for > by Google and its lobbyists. Please keep conspiracy theories off the

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Quoting an Alexa spokesperson: "We don't think we did anything wrong," Alexa Chief Executive Brewster Kahle said. "But instead of going all the way through the legal process, we thought this was the easiest way to go on with our business." -- That capsulized the problem perfectly:

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

No ISPs have any right to market our customers browsing history, and currently that practice is illegal unless the customer opts in. In my opinion, only a fool wants to relieve ISPs of this restriction. The claim oft presented by people favoring this customer abuse is that the sold data is

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Last time I checked most European countries have stronger privacy protections than the US. Are they also idiots? Mr. Glass, would you care to respond? Regards, Roderick. From: NANOG on behalf of Brett Glass

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

On 3/27/17 4:22 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > I am somehow please that Mr. Glass does not find me a “knowledgeable > network professional”. It feels like a badge of honor. Any other “not” > knowledgeable network professionals want to come forward and accept > this badge? You will find me as

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Having worked networks with massive bandwidth, networks with a single T1 (don’t ask, just Google what a T1 is, er, was), and now being somewhere in the middle, I agree that the large guys sometimes forget the little guys exist. However, I think the change in privacy being proposed hurts -all-

Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

Many organizations clamor the FCC for regulation because they hate something about the top 10, 20, etc. ISPs. There is certainly something to hate about them, but almost every time, the baby gets thrown out with the bath water and little ISPs are harmed along the way. Extremes on both sides are