Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-27 Thread John Curran
On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > >> LACNIC numbers (as a percent) are quite good, but my question >> was why only RIPE has the very impressive total count of ROAs. > > < conjecture follows > > > of course one can never know. but i conject > o the are the largest registry act

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-26 Thread Randy Bush
> LACNIC numbers (as a percent) are quite good, but my question > was why only RIPE has the very impressive total count of ROAs. < conjecture follows > of course one can never know. but i conject o the are the largest registry actively promotin registration o the ncc, particularly alex, tim

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-26 Thread Dmitry Burkov
John - it is not about RPK I - our initial goal was to deploy some kind of certification to resources allocated to our members Dmitry If we use for it some SIDR developments - may be - it is a mistake or misentrepration - but what's true that we never thougy On 26 Oct 2014, at 14:40, John Curr

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-26 Thread Dmitry Burkov
it's just a consequence that our initial idea was just about to protect allocations of our members - not about secure routing at all On 26 Oct 2014, at 14:40, John Curran wrote: > On Oct 26, 2014, at 6:46 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> >> 20% coverage in lacnic low? how do ipv6 and dnssec compare

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-26 Thread John Curran
On Oct 26, 2014, at 6:46 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > > 20% coverage in lacnic low? how do ipv6 and dnssec compare (which is > damned sad)? over 2,000 in ripe and over 8%? how does that compare to > ipv6? > > arin, 388 and 0.7%, a joke. LACNIC numbers (as a percent) are quite good, but my quest

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-26 Thread Randy Bush
john > To what extent is the ROA growth rate in the RIPE region (on page 5 of > the NANOG slides) enabled by the IRR practices of that region? check out slide 3, lacnic has a 20% adoption rate. both ripe and lacnic have put energy into their own systems, educating users, ... ripe's curve would

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread John Curran
On Oct 25, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > > you just happen to have the view from a third world country > look at. >http://archive.psg.com/141006.rpki-nanog.pdf slides 4 & 5 > or > http://certification-stats.ripe.net/?type=roa-v4 Randy - To what extent is the ROA growth rate in

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread Ca By
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > you just happen to have the view from a third world country > look at. > http://archive.psg.com/141006.rpki-nanog.pdf slides 4 & 5 > or > http://certification-stats.ripe.net/?type=roa-v4 > > randy > I agree with Randy. RPKI is achievab

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread Randy Bush
you just happen to have the view from a third world country look at. http://archive.psg.com/141006.rpki-nanog.pdf slides 4 & 5 or http://certification-stats.ripe.net/?type=roa-v4 randy

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread Danny McPherson
On 2014-10-25 06:57, Sandra Murphy wrote: Other RIR based RIRs have the same ability to protect prefixes in their realm of control. (See RFC 2725 RPSS)(*) (I think that APNIC is doing pretty much as RIPE is.) Even RIPE is not secure for prefixes outside their region. (There's one maintainer t

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread Danny McPherson
On 2014-10-25 08:25, John Curran wrote: With respect to IRR support, the same answer applies. If the community is clear on direction, ARIN can strengthen the current IRR offerings, phase them out and redirect folks to existing solutions, or any other direction as desired. The hardest part is

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread John Curran
On Oct 23, 2014, at 4:18 PM, Danny McPherson wrote: > > On 2014-10-23 12:33, Christopher Morrow wrote: > >> Sounds like you want to see the rirs make sure they get rpki work >> dine and widely available with the least encumbrances on the network >> operator community as possible. > > Or focus o

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread Bill Woodcock
On Oct 25, 2014, at 9:38 PM, Danny McPherson wrote: > On 2014-10-24 15:24, Christopher Morrow wrote: > >> it seems to me that there are a couple simple issues with IRR data >> (historically): >> 1) no authority for it (really, at least in the ARIN region) >> 2) no common practice of keeping i

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread Sandra Murphy
Other RIR based RIRs have the same ability to protect prefixes in their realm of control. (See RFC 2725 RPSS)(*) (I think that APNIC is doing pretty much as RIPE is.) Even RIPE is not secure for prefixes outside their region. (There's one maintainer that anyone can use to register anything

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-25 Thread Danny McPherson
On 2014-10-24 15:24, Christopher Morrow wrote: it seems to me that there are a couple simple issues with IRR data (historically): 1) no authority for it (really, at least in the ARIN region) 2) no common practice of keeping it updated 3) proxy-registration issues (probably part of cleanup

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-24 Thread Baldur Norddahl
The RIPE IRR is secure. Why not just copy that for the other regions? Baldur

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-24 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 8:23 AM, John Sweeting wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Danny McPherson wrote: >> >> On 2014-10-23 12:33, Christopher Morrow wrote: >> >>> Sounds like you want to see the rirs make sure they get rpki work >>> dine and widely available with the least encumbranc

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-24 Thread John Sweeting
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Danny McPherson wrote: > On 2014-10-23 12:33, Christopher Morrow wrote: > > Sounds like you want to see the rirs make sure they get rpki work >> dine and widely available with the least encumbrances on the network >> operator community as possible. >> > > Or focu

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-23 Thread Danny McPherson
On 2014-10-23 15:02, Sandra Murphy wrote: IRR usage, training, tools, and better hygiene, perhaps expressly validated from resource certification from either RPKI You might be interested in the draft-ietf-sidr-rpsl-sig-05.txt, which suggests using RPKI to protect RPSL objects. Yep, I'm aware

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-23 Thread Sandra Murphy
> IRR usage, training, tools, and better hygiene, perhaps expressly validated > from resource certification from either RPKI You might be interested in the draft-ietf-sidr-rpsl-sig-05.txt, which suggests using RPKI to protect RPSL objects. That would help solve the trust problem in the current

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-23 Thread Danny McPherson
On 2014-10-23 12:33, Christopher Morrow wrote: Sounds like you want to see the rirs make sure they get rpki work dine and widely available with the least encumbrances on the network operator community as possible. Or focus on more short/intermediate term returns like fortifying all the existi

Re: ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-23 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Oct 23, 2014 2:27 PM, "Danny McPherson" wrote: > > > > I think the routing system would be in a much happier [less bad] place if only had a minor amount of the energy and resources that USG (and RIRs) have been put towards RPKI and BGPSEC (i.e., IETF SIDR work) would have been redirected to lo

ARIN / RIR Pragmatism (WAS: Re: RADB)

2014-10-23 Thread Danny McPherson
I think the routing system would be in a much happier [less bad] place if only had a minor amount of the energy and resources that USG (and RIRs) have been put towards RPKI and BGPSEC (i.e., IETF SIDR work) would have been redirected to lower hanging fruit and better recognizing / leveraging