Online games stealing your bandwidth

I think most people are aware that the Blizzard "World of WarcCraft" patcher distributes files through Bittorrent, however apparently a number of other MMO companies (LotR, Lego) are apparently doing something similar but aren't as upfront about it, and are installing Windows services which seed wh

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 25 September 2010 21:16, Rodrick Brown wrote: > I think most people are aware that the Blizzard "World of WarcCraft" patcher > distributes files through Bittorrent, I once read an article talking about making BitTorrent scalable by using anycasted caching services at the ISP's closest POP to

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, 25 Sep 2010, Rodrick Brown wrote: If you follow the links in the article people are complaining that the LotR process has served 70gb in a week, others are complaining that the service is resulting in 300ms pings, and unusable connections. This is a very grey area it will be interesting

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 04:16:46PM -0400, Rodrick Brown wrote: > I think most people are aware that the Blizzard "World of WarcCraft" patcher > distributes files through Bittorrent I personally love Bittorrent. It is wonderful for CDN - for both legal and not-so-legal files. I however despise the

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 04:56:21PM -0400, Jon Lewis wrote: > Are these companies not making enough in monthly subscriptions to > afford Akamai or similar CDN services to distribute their software > updates? If you read the article, you will see that Akami is one of the perpetrators, via the "Akam

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:43:25 BST, Matthew Walster said: > Was anything ever standardised in that field? I imagine with much of > P2P traffic being (how shall I put this...) less than legal, it's of > questionable legality and the ISPs would not want to be held liable > for the content cached there

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

o the same thing and have never seen a downloader that you couldn't disable that option if you like. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Harry Strongburg Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:03:43 To: Subject: Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 04:16:46PM -0400, Rod

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 2010-09-25 23:53, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:43:25 BST, Matthew Walster said: > >> Was anything ever standardised in that field? I imagine with much of >> P2P traffic being (how shall I put this...) less than legal, it's of >> questionable legality and the ISPs woul

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 09:56:15PM +, khatfi...@socllc.net wrote: > Speaking to your example with Blizzard: It was not my example, I do not play Blizzard games. > The Blizzard downloader does provide an option to disable P2P > transfers which then downloads direct via http from Blizzard. Th

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi@nanog.org Sat Sep 25 17:00:42 > 2010 > Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 00:01:38 +0200 > From: Jeroen Massar > To: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu > Subject: Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth > Cc: NANOG > > On 2010-09-25 23:53, va

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

t On 26/09/2010, at 6:43 AM, Matthew Walster wrote: > On 25 September 2010 21:16, Rodrick Brown wrote: >> I think most people are aware that the Blizzard "World of WarcCraft" patcher >> distributes files through Bittorrent, > > > > I once read an article talking about making BitTorrent scala

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010, Matthew Walster wrote: > I once read an article talking about making BitTorrent scalable by > using anycasted caching services at the ISP's closest POP to the end > user. Given sufficient traffic on a specified torrent, the caching > device would build up the file, then distr

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 26 September 2010 00:47, Adrian Chadd wrote: > I don't recall any protocols being standard. > > Plenty of people sell p2p caches but they all work using magic, smoke > and mirrors. I had the P4P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactive_network_Provider_Participation_for_P2P) pointed out to me

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

Games? Yes a few, but... Ever seen Skype on an open, non-NAT'ed internet connection? Capture some netflow on a self-promoted supernode sometime. Or seen Octoshape in action? Jeff

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sun, 2010-09-26 at 07:47 +0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: > I don't recall any protocols being standard. > > Plenty of people sell p2p caches but they all work using magic, smoke > and mirrors. > > > Adrian Less smoky is the relatively common practice (at least in Europe) of tech-friendly ISPs r

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 17:41:16 CDT, Robert Bonomi said: > On Sun, 26 Sep 2010 00:01:38 , Jeroen Massar said: > > So it that is true, if you define "news server" as a "cache", even > > though you have to buy several terabytes, make that several petabytes, > > to "be able to "cache" this data one along

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 9/25/2010 6:47 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: I don't recall any protocols being standard. I don't either, though I recall bittorrent actually supporting it once and pushing to have ISP support and stay away from encryption/ISP circumvention. That was years ago. Haven't stayed current. Plent

RE: Online games stealing your bandwidth

-Original Message- From: Jack Bates [mailto:jba...@brightok.net] Sent: 27 September 2010 17:39 To: Adrian Chadd Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth On 9/25/2010 6:47 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >> I don't recall any protocols being standard. &g

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:44:37 BST, Leigh Porter said: > We had a great P2P cache from Cache Appliance. Did anybody else try > them? Can you say anything about what size cache it was, and what amount of bandwidth savings it produced? pgpHbKjlAd43Z.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:27:28 BST, Brandon Butterworth said: > I fail to see the point. If an ISP needs to add caches they may > as well just add a simple, cheaper, standard, http cache. It's a bang-per-buck issue, and depends highly on whether your particular network sees more HTTP or P2P traffic

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

> > I fail to see the point. If an ISP needs to add caches they may > > as well just add a simple, cheaper, standard, http cache. > > It's a bang-per-buck issue, and depends highly on whether your > particular network sees more HTTP or P2P traffic. Orly. No, I mean if there have to be caches why

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 27 Sep 2010, at 20:54, Brandon Butterworth wrote: >>> I fail to see the point. If an ISP needs to add caches they may >>> as well just add a simple, cheaper, standard, http cache. >> >> It's a bang-per-buck issue, and depends highly on whether your >> particular network sees more HTTP or P2P

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 9/27/2010 2:54 PM, Brandon Butterworth wrote: No, I mean if there have to be caches why use p2p in the first place, once there's a network of caches p2p becomes a more complicated http and that model has been well optimised by some. It's a redundancy factor. By participating in a p2p networ

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

There's some standardization work being done in the IETF ALTO working group. They're looking at ways ISPs can inform P2P clints about which peers are "better", I.e., topologically nearby. http://tools.ietf.org/wg/alto/ I'm less familiar with DECADE, but I believe they're working on more directly

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

Can someone name an ISP that encourages P2P traffic?? ;) Sent from a mobile phone with a small keyboard, please excuse my mistakes. On Sep 27, 2010, at 4:32 PM, "Richard Barnes" wrote: > There's some standardization work being done in the IETF ALTO working > group. They're looking at ways ISPs

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

I thought the issue was more about ISPs encouraging *responsible* P2P. On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Warren Bailey wrote: > Can someone name an ISP that encourages P2P traffic?? ;) > > Sent from a mobile phone with a small keyboard, please excuse my mistakes. > > On Sep 27, 2010, at 4:32 PM,

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 9/27/2010 7:35 PM, Warren Bailey wrote: Can someone name an ISP that encourages P2P traffic?? ;) A proper ISP doesn't encourage any type of traffic. We're indifferent. Of course, we'll be happy to mention the benefits and draw backs of using various protocols on the Internet. Demand wise,

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

BitTorrent have been active contributors to the IETF LEDBAT working group, which is looking at transport protocols that back off much more aggressively than TCP, with exactly the idea of making P2P have a lower impact on other things at the customer edge. On T

RE: Online games stealing your bandwidth

es" of traffic can make a good day turn very badly without some traffic "management". -Original Message- From: Jack Bates [mailto:jba...@brightok.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:58 AM To: Warren Bailey Cc: Richard Barnes; NANOG Subject: Re: Online games stealing your

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 9/28/2010 1:00 PM, Warren Bailey wrote: Jack, Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but looking at your website - do you only offer dial up services? This could be the background for a statement like "a proper ISP doesn't encourage any type of traffic." We have a couple of OC-192 running to Seattle,

RE: Online games stealing your bandwidth

an experience to people.. //warren -Original Message- From: Jack Bates [mailto:jba...@brightok.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:26 AM To: Warren Bailey Cc: Richard Barnes; NANOG Subject: Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth On 9/28/2010 1:00 PM, Warren Bailey wrote: > Jac

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:26 AM > To: Warren Bailey > Cc: Richard Barnes; NANOG > Subject: Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth > > On 9/28/2010 1:00 PM, Warren Bailey wrote: >> Jack, >> >> Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but looking at your

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

vast majority of the night use is gaming, and > bit torrent. It makes things much more complicated when trying to give an > experience to people.. >> >> //warren >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: Jack Bates [mailto:jba...@brightok.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, Septem

RE: Online games stealing your bandwidth

> -Original Message- > From: Jason Iannone [mailto:jason.iann...@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:50 PM > To: manolo hernandez > Cc: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth > > In my experience users aren't

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On 9/28/2010 2:22 PM, manolo hernandez wrote: What is keeping your company from buying more bandwidth? I find the excuse of over subscription to be a fail. If that's your companies business model then it should not be whining when people are using what you sell them. Provision bandwidth according

RE: Online games stealing your bandwidth

the diesel used to provide power to the Earth station (9$ a gallon) so it can transmit. Expensive happy meal. -Original Message- From: Jack Bates [mailto:jba...@brightok.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:20 PM To: manolo hernandez Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Online games ste

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Matthew Walster wrote: >> Plenty of people sell p2p caches but they all work using magic, smoke and >> mirrors. Somehow that seems appropriate for gaming networks; maybe add some swords or old Gandalf boxes. In general distributing gaming software isn't going to

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

As for online experience, any action game with players 200ms away from each others, is not really playable. By the time you aim, shoot, and the info register on the server and other user player PC, it has moved far away from the shot...

Re: Online games stealing your bandwidth

On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 16:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Jon Lewis wrote: > On Sat, 25 Sep 2010, Rodrick Brown wrote: > > > If you follow the links in the article people are complaining that the LotR > > process has served 70gb in a week, others are complaining that the service > > is resulting in 300ms pings,