Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 7:39 AM John Curran wrote:? > On 16 Sep 2022, at 10:11 PM, John Gilmore wrote: >> As a simple example, ARIN's contract need not require its customers to >> give up their resources when ceasing to pay ARIN for services. (There's > > A wonderful assertion, but false. Of co

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

> On 18 Sep 2022, at 20:42, Owen DeLong wrote: > > Since at its best, all RPKI can provide is a hint at how to properly lie > about an announcement (i.e. what > you must prepend in order for it to be believed), I remain unconvinced that > it provides any actual benefit > except, perhaps, to

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

Since at its best, all RPKI can provide is a hint at how to properly lie about an announcement (i.e. what you must prepend in order for it to be believed), I remain unconvinced that it provides any actual benefit except, perhaps, to the largest and most well known ASNs as originators. Owen > O

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

> On 18 Sep 2022, at 20:17, Owen DeLong via NANOG wrote: > > > >> On Sep 15, 2022, at 22:04 , Rubens Kuhl wrote: >> >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 12:45 PM William Herrin wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:09 PM Rubens Kuhl wrote: On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:55 AM William Herrin

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

> On Sep 17, 2022, at 08:18 , Tom Beecher wrote: > > I would honestly love it if IANA was able to say "As of X date, all LEGACY > IPv4 allocations are transferred to the RIRs . Assignees will not change, but > will now need to comply with each RIRs policies." The first part of that statement

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

> On Sep 16, 2022, at 08:53 , John Curran wrote: > > Tom - > > It’s an artifact of our formation that we are presently providing services to > any customers absent any agreement > and while ARIN continues to do so (by providing basic services to legacy > customers), the long-term direction

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

> On 18 Sep 2022, at 20:04, Owen DeLong via NANOG wrote: > > I could be mistaken, but I believe that RIPE NCC provides RPKI services for > Legacy without Contract resource holders. The policy: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-639 The details: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

> On Sep 15, 2022, at 22:04 , Rubens Kuhl wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 12:45 PM William Herrin > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 9:09 PM Rubens Kuhl wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:55 AM William Herrin wrote: No, the best option for me right now

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

> On Sep 15, 2022, at 21:09 , Rubens Kuhl wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:55 AM William Herrin > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 8:51 PM Rubens Kuhl wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 10:56 AM William Herrin wrote: Well, I'm one of the people who'd pub

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

I could be mistaken, but I believe that RIPE NCC provides RPKI services for Legacy without Contract resource holders. Owen > On Sep 15, 2022, at 15:55 , Rubens Kuhl wrote: > > You could try suggesting IANA/PTI/ICANN to have a different RPKI trust > anchor and provide such services to legacy b

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

Tom – While this may be surprising, it’s my personal view that ARIN and our community has benefited significantly from the approach taken with the legacy resource holders – as opposed to what might have occurred with some form of automatic or mandatory conversion of legacy resource holders to A

RE: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

I believe that’s known as “saying the quiet part out loud”, Tom 😊. Without stating my own opinion, I merely observe that I know a great many people who agree with you, and a not-insignificant number who vehemently disagree with you. Most of the conclusions to be drawn there are obvious, but hu

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

I would honestly love it if IANA was able to say "As of X date, all LEGACY IPv4 allocations are transferred to the RIRs . Assignees will not change, but will now need to comply with each RIRs policies." Of course this will never happen, because it would just be a flood of billable hours, lawsuits,

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On 16 Sep 2022, at 10:11 PM, John Gilmore mailto:g...@toad.com>> wrote: John Curran mailto:jcur...@arin.net>> wrote: ... the long-term direction is to provide the same services to all customers under the same agreement and fees – anything else wouldn’t be equitable. There are many "anything els

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

John Curran wrote: > ... the long-term direction is to provide the same services to all > customers under the same agreement and fees – anything else wouldn’t > be equitable. There are many "anything else"s that would indeed be equitable. It is equitable for businesses to sell yesterday's bread

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On 16 Sep 2022, at 12:26 PM, Steve Noble mailto:sno...@sonn.com>> wrote: On Fri, Sep 16, 2022, 9:23 AM John Curran mailto:jcur...@arin.net>> wrote: Steve - If you have IPv4 or IPv6 resources under an RSA/LRSA, then you are an ARIN service member. ARIN service members in good standing can (

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 9:09 AM Steve Noble wrote: > On Fri, Sep 16, 2022, 8:55 AM John Curran wrote: >> It’s an artifact of our formation that we are presently providing services >> to any customers absent any agreement >> and while ARIN continues to do so (by providing basic services to legacy

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022, 9:23 AM John Curran wrote: > > On 16 Sep 2022, at 12:09 PM, Steve Noble wrote: > > (This is the direction that the ARIN Board of Trustees has set based on >> community input; I will note that >> the ARIN Board is itself elected by the community and that we have our >> annua

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

Alex - We only provide certification services to resource holders who have a registration services agreement with ARIN. Thanks, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers > On 16 Sep 2022, at 12:21 PM, Alex Band wrote: > > John, > > In the interest o

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On 16 Sep 2022, at 12:09 PM, Steve Noble mailto:sno...@sonn.com>> wrote: (This is the direction that the ARIN Board of Trustees has set based on community input; I will note that the ARIN Board is itself elected by the community and that we have our annual election upcoming – Unless the rules

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

John, In the interest of routing security, when you say ‘basic services’ would ARIN consider offering resource holders who did not sign an (L)RSA the ability to run their own RPKI CA, i.e. you offer them a resource certificate and nothing else, much like what NIC.br currently does in Brazil. R

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022, 8:55 AM John Curran wrote: > Tom - > > It’s an artifact of our formation that we are presently providing services > to any customers absent any agreement > and while ARIN continues to do so (by providing basic services to legacy > customers), the long-term direction is > to

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

Tom - It’s an artifact of our formation that we are presently providing services to any customers absent any agreement and while ARIN continues to do so (by providing basic services to legacy customers), the long-term direction is to provide the same services to all customers under the same agre

RE: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

Thanks John! I've been working on this with our attorneys for almost a year. I did send over the revisions and it will be good to see what they say. But I'm not sure it will be enough to reduce the perceived risk. Has ARIN considered separating the fee structure and service goals from the drive

Re: [External] Normal ARIN registration service fees for LRSA entrants after 31 Dec 2023 (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] Availability of the Legacy Fee Cap for New LRSA Entrants Ending as of 31 December 20

On 15 Sep 2022, at 9:29 PM, Tom Krenn via NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: An interesting idea, but like others have said I think the ship may have sailed for RPKI. Really I have no problem with the ARIN fees. They are a drop in the bucket for most network budgets. In fact as a legacy hol