Re: Blockchain and Networking

When your trying to find a use for your new hammer; everything tends to look like nails. Anthony Kolka Systems Engineer 303-414-6904 anth...@handynetworks.com https://www.handynetworks.com On Jan 24, 2018, at 1:28 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:27:45 -0600, Jimmy Hess said: > However, a blockchain could also be used to allow an authority to make a > statement representing > a resource that can be made a non-withdrawable statement --- in other words, > the authority's role > or job in the registration process i

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 8:19 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote: > >> >> since the number registry is an authority of limited power: not an >> authority of complete power. >> > > Oh, the RIR's went and got complete power? When did that happen

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote: > > since the number registry is an authority of limited power: not an > authority of complete power. > Oh, the RIR's went and got complete power? When did that happen? Can they now stop hijacked ip space and announcements like in the case of

Re: Blockchain and Networking

That sounds like giving up an awful lot of utility for a (at least in most places) something that's an exceedingly rare corner case. The other problem is that even if the record is immutable there's nothing that prevents governments from being coercive in other ways. At the end of the day there's

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 9:39 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > > the problem isn't keeping the database, it's figuring out who can make > authoritative statements about each block of IP addresses. That is an inherently hierarchical question since all IP blocks originally > trace back to allocations fr

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Michael O Holstein wrote: >> Blockchain's objective was to make transactions non-repudiable and > they >> succeeded. However, that interacts with its decentralized >> nature to make those transactions irreversible as well. > > To re-use your example, banks don't "

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On 2018-01-23 08:17, Jimmy Hess wrote: > The promise of blockchain is fraud-resistant recordkeeping, database > management, AND > resource management maintained by a distributed decentralized network which > eliminates or reduces the extent to which there are central points of trust > involved in

Re: Blockchain and Networking

You're precisely right Michael. People who say blockchain doesn't solve any real world problems, haven't tried solving the problems Block chain so handily tackles using some other method. Trust is a huge vulnerability, as we have seen over and over in the crypto biz. In aviation, for example, we

Re: Blockchain and Networking

> Blockchain's objective was to make transactions non-repudiable and > they > succeeded. However, that interacts with its decentralized > nature to make those transactions irreversible as well. To re-use your example, banks don't "delete" the record of the bad check, they just create an offsett

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 8:17 AM, Jimmy Hess wrote: > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:22 AM, William Herrin wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 1:07 AM, John R. Levine wrote: >> >> > The promise of blockchain is fraud-resistant recordkeeping, database > management, > Hi Jimmy, That is -so- not the ca

Re: Blockchain and Networking

Thanks for this note -- I couldn't ask for a better explanation of why blockchains don't solve any actual real world problems. Trust problems are difficult, and waving hands and saying decentralize! solves nothing. For the nanog-related example of validating AS origin, the problem isn't keepi

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On 1/23/2018 6:17 AM, Jimmy Hess wrote: The potential is there to go a step beyond replacing RPKI, as a blockchain could be the AS number authority itself, thus eliminating the need to have any centralized organizations for tracking and managing number resource assignments. I am a long-time f

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:22 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 1:07 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > > The promise of blockchain is fraud-resistant recordkeeping, database management, AND resource management maintained by a distributed decentralized network which eliminates or reduc

Re: Blockchain and Networking

I'd be interested in applications around ownership of IP space or ASNs, but there's so many ways to skin that cat already that people don't do because it's 'hard' or 'reduces our flexibility' or sometimes because it involves hardware upgrades as Christopher Morrow pointed out with RPKI and BGPsec.

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On 2018-01-13 03:26, Christopher Morrow wrote: On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 5:20 PM, wrote: On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:28:19 -0500, William Herrin said: On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Dale W. Carder wrote: Traceroute or any other path diagnostics comes to mind. That's not obvious to me. Assumi

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 5:20 PM, wrote: > On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:28:19 -0500, William Herrin said: > > On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Dale W. Carder wrote: > > > > > > Traceroute or any other path diagnostics comes to mind. > > > That's not obvious to me. Assuming the time-exceeded message was

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:28:19 -0500, William Herrin said: > On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Dale W. Carder wrote: > > > > Traceroute or any other path diagnostics comes to mind. > That's not obvious to me. Assuming the time-exceeded message was modified > to include the necessary data, how would

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:44 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Transferring log files, used as forensic evidence, comes to mind. > Blockchain is no better at transferring log files than regular PKI. Blockchain could be used to authenticate that forensic evidence presented later is the same evidence t

Re: Blockchain and Networking

Traceroute or any other path diagnostics comes to mind. Dale Thus spake Tom Beecher (beec...@beecher.cc) on Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 12:22:43PM -0500: > "Blockchain is great at proving chain of custody, but when do you need to do > that in computer networking?" > > This is the most important quest

Re: Blockchain and Networking

Transferring log files, used as forensic evidence, comes to mind. Any kind of paperwork, tables, etc. associated with network configuration - particularly if you're trying to preserve changes. On 1/11/18 10:22 AM, Tom Beecher wrote: "Blockchain is great at proving chain of custody, but when

Re: Blockchain and Networking

"Blockchain is great at proving chain of custody, but when do you need to do that in computer networking?" This is the most important question to ask. Everything else is just buzzwordy shenanigans. On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:52 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:26 AM, Glen Ke

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On 11 January 2018 at 00:54, Filip Hruska wrote: > You can't just run normal software on ASICs. It's not a computer. They're > literally hard-wired to do one thing - and do it well. > Switch ASICs, for example, are good for switching network packets around. > Though (I would assume) they > can't

Re: Blockchain and Networking

Application Specific Integrated Circuit. It's even in the name! You can't just run normal software on ASICs. It's not a computer. They're literally hard-wired to do one thing - and do it well. Switch ASICs, for example, are good for switching network packets around. Though (I would assume) they

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 11:22 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 1:07 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > > > How about validating whether a given AS is an acceptable origin for a set > >> of prefixes? > > > > > That's a job for ordinary PKI. Any time you have a trusted central > in part

Re: Blockchain and Networking

New devices like the former Brocade SLX even has its own hypervisor on x86-intel and runs an Ubuntu VM for management and monitoring. You can even install your own things, therefore new applications and purposes will rise in the future. I also believe that dockerization will come to the net

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 1:07 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > How about validating whether a given AS is an acceptable origin for a set >> of prefixes? > > That's a job for ordinary PKI. Any time you have a trusted central authority to serve as an anchor, ordinary PKI works fine. The RIRs serve as anch

Re: Blockchain and Networking

It seems to me that at the current moment in the evolution of bitcoin, the only way to make money from it is to sell the equipment to mine coins, as the chances of ever making any money from mining coins yourself are vanishingly small. And then only if you get your electricity and cooling for free

Re: Blockchain and Networking

The definition of an ASIC is that it has only one use. Just because half of a 100gb switch is not in use doesn't mean that you can mine bitcoin, or run a blockchain with the asics not in use.. On 9 January 2018 at 08:49, Jean | ddostest.me via NANOG wrote: > BTC miners use asics. Big switches/ro

Re: Blockchain and Networking

BTC miners use asics. Big switches/routers use 100Gb asics. Some switches have multiple 100 Gb asics and sometimes only half is use or even less. I guess it could be nice for some smaller telcos to generate some profit during off peak period. I don't know how feasible and I fully understand that t

RE: Blockchain and Networking

Sure but there are lots of blockchains other than bitcoin. A lot of real smart people do not even suspect that bitcoin is a long term survivor due to its long transaction times. Which blockchains do you want to support? 150GB may not seem like a lot (although a lot of my gear does not have th

Re: Blockchain and Networking

A slightly more pessimistic view: https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-a-use-case-for-blockchain-ee98c180100 -- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: h...@slabnet.com pgp key: B178313E | also on Signal signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: Blockchain and Networking

(watching this thread and wondering..) On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 2:39 AM, Peter Kristolaitis wrote: > On 2018-01-08 10:19 PM, John Levine wrote: > >> In article <0c45eee2-ffcb-2066-1456-eb2d38075...@alter3d.ca>, >> Peter Kristolaitis wrote: >> >>> We can build all of the above in other ways today

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On 2018-01-08 10:19 PM, John Levine wrote: In article <0c45eee2-ffcb-2066-1456-eb2d38075...@alter3d.ca>, Peter Kristolaitis wrote: We can build all of the above in other ways today, of course.  But there's certainly something to be said for a vendor-supported solution that is inherent in the p

Re: Blockchain and Networking

How about validating whether a given AS is an acceptable origin for a set of prefixes? Seems like a problem (route hijacking) that's still been looking for a solution. Lots of BGP routers, RRs, prefix databases are around, maintained and generally online. Current practices are incomplete and for m

Re: Blockchain and Networking

In article <0c45eee2-ffcb-2066-1456-eb2d38075...@alter3d.ca>, Peter Kristolaitis wrote: >We can build all of the above in other ways today, of course.  But >there's certainly something to be said for a vendor-supported solution >that is inherent in the platform and requires no additional >infr

Re: Blockchain and Networking

Hi, its not only about PKI. There are some currencies in the wild right now, that are more scalable than bitcoin and are made for the "ddos" world of IoT. For example a possible BGP extension could use smart contracts to form and confirm peering and also handle the direct payment process to

Re: Blockchain and Networking

Each offsite copy of git repository will give alert then, as all hashes in chain changed at some moment. Same principle as blockchain. On 2018-01-08 09:54, tglas...@earthlink.net wrote: Uh since MITM Bill perk of custody is key. //tsg Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: "Denys Fed

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On 2018-01-08 08:59, Peter Kristolaitis wrote: On 2018-01-08 12:52 AM, William Herrin wrote: I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where blockchain does that any better than plain old PKI. Blockchain is great at proving chain of custody, but when do you need to do that in computer networ

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On 2018-01-08 12:52 AM, William Herrin wrote: I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where blockchain does that any better than plain old PKI. Blockchain is great at proving chain of custody, but when do you need to do that in computer networking? Regards, Bill Herrin There's probably some

Re: Blockchain and Networking

agreed this could have potential to be the next "devops" style buzzword On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:38 AM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: > >Where else can blockchain be used in networking? > > Other uses notwithstanding, it should be good for inflating the share > price of any network vendor that adds "now

Re: Blockchain and Networking

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:26 AM, Glen Kent wrote: > Do folks on this list see blockchain technology making inroads into the > networking? I can see blockchain being used to secure the SDN environment > where blockchain will allow encrypted data transfers between nodes (ones > hosting different ap

Re: Blockchain and Networking

>Where else can blockchain be used in networking? Other uses notwithstanding, it should be good for inflating the share price of any network vendor that adds "now with block chain!" somewhere into their product portfolio. /snark -- Hugo Slabbert | email, xmpp/jabber: h...@slabnet.com pgp key