Re: Fiber cut in SF area

VZ in the South Bay (San Jose) is out. As per news reports I watched at 6am PDT. --Original Message-- From: Craig Holland To: NANOG Subject: Fiber cut in SF area Sent: Apr 9, 2009 8:14 AM Just dropping a note that there is a fiber cut in the SF area (I have a metro line down). Above

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Yup. Abovenet fiber between 200 Paul SFO and 11 Great Oaks SJC is currently out of commission. jason On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Stefan Molnar wrote: > > VZ in the South Bay (San Jose) is out. As per news reports I watched at > 6am PDT. > > > --Original Message-- > From: Craig Ho

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

200 Paul Ave is seeing several carriers down. I am also in Santa Cruz and cannot make or receive long distance calls on my land lines. Unconfirmed reports of Caltrain cut. Cheers, Aaron On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 03:37:14PM +, Stefan Molnar wrote: > > VZ in the South Bay (San Jose) is out.

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Hello, Mercurynews.com is reporting telephone outages in Santa Clara and Santa Cruz counties that started around 2:00 am local time. I observed numerous carrier outages starting around 4:00 am local time. Does anyone know if this is due to the same fiber cut, or are these separate issues?

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Seeing the same thing have an oc48 down from abovenet out of 200 paul -carlos -Original Message- From: Aaron Hughes [mailto:aar...@bind.com] Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:13 AM To: Stefan Molnar Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area 200 Paul Ave is seeing several carriers down

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Craig Holland wrote: > Just dropping a note that there is a fiber cut in the SF area (I have a > metro line down). AboveNet is reporting issues and I've heard unconfirmed > reports that ATT and VZW are affected as well. Confirmed VZW & ATT; http:

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

News coverage: http://cow.org/r/?5459 http://cow.org/r/?545a And not that I expect any useful updates: http://twitter.com/attnews -r On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Craig Holland wrote: > Just dropping a note that there is a fiber cut in the SF area (I have a > metro line down). Abo

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Hi, On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 11:15:05AM -0600, David Edwards wrote: > Mercurynews.com is reporting telephone outages in Santa Clara and > Santa Cruz counties that started around 2:00 am local time. I > observed numerous carrier outages starting around 4:00 am local > time. Does anyone know if t

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

I saw my Sonic.net-over-AT&T ADSL go dark at 02:30 local and it is still down, served on a fiber remote out of SNCZCA01. (I'm guessing the 200 Paul outages are associated with where this ATM terminates and that's the cause, rather than the service in/out of Santa Cruz County, but I have no way

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Level3 is having problems in the 216 area code as well (Cleveland) George Roettger > -Original Message- > From: David Edwards [mailto:da...@reliablehosting.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:15 PM > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF are

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Anyone know where the actual cut is? On 4/9/09, David W. Hankins wrote: > On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Craig Holland wrote: >> Just dropping a note that there is a fiber cut in the SF area (I have a >> metro line down). AboveNet is reporting issues and I've heard unconfirmed >> repo

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

isn't there a mailing list for this sort of thing? outages@ I think it is? (not that I mind, just a little advert for the appropriate forum, and a place that MAY have some useful info on this topic) -chris On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Ravi Pina wrote: > News coverage: > > http://cow.org/r/?54

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Ravi Pina wrote: News coverage: http://cow.org/r/?5459 http://cow.org/r/?545a And not that I expect any useful updates: http://twitter.com/attnews Lots of folks covering the same thing... http://search.twitter.com/search?q=fiber+cut http://search.twitter.com/search?q=outage Also report

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Service to South Santa Clara county is completely down: Internet, landline, and cellphones. Both Verizon and AT&T are affected. 911 is also down. My cellphones show one or no bars. Normally they are all four bars. The idea that all of that is lumped in one fiber bundle is mind boggling. On T

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Monterey Highway I think On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyone know where the actual cut is? > > On 4/9/09, David W. Hankins wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Craig Holland wrote: > >> Just dropping a note that there is a fiber cut in the SF area (I have

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

>From the news coverage it appears to be in the general area of http://cow.org/r/?545c -r On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 11:11:58AM -0700, Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyone know where the actual cut is? > > On 4/9/09, David W. Hankins wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Craig Holland wrote:

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Monterey Road just north of Blossom Hill, San Jose On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyone know where the actual cut is? > > On 4/9/09, David W. Hankins wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Craig Holland wrote: >>> Just dropping a note that there is a fiber cut

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Mike Lyon writes: >Anyone know where the actual cut is? According to SF Chronicle: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/09/BAP816VTE6.DTL&tsp=1 "The fiber-optic cables were severed shortly before 1:30 a.m. along Monterey Highway north of Blossom Hill Road in south San Jose, p

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > isn't there a mailing list for this sort of thing? outages@ I think it is? Jared put together long time ago seems to still be active and receiving reports about this one. List archive is at https://puck.nether.net/pipermail/outages/ M

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Hey Chris, Yes. outa...@outages.org is the one. Alex Christopher Morrow wrote: > isn't there a mailing list for this sort of thing? outages@ I think it is? > > (not that I mind, just a little advert for the appropriate forum, and > a place that MAY have some useful info on this topic) > -chris

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Yeah. It's on outages. Not much useful there. Christopher Morrow wrote: isn't there a mailing list for this sort of thing? outages@ I think it is? (not that I mind, just a little advert for the appropriate forum, and a place that MAY have some useful info on this topic) -chris On Thu, Apr 9, 2

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

nice article on bitgravity blog regarding the cuts.. http://sandbox.bitgravity.com/blog/2009/04/09/destroy-the-internet-with-a-hacksaw/ On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Charles Wyble wrote: > > > Ravi Pina wrote: > >> News coverage: >> >> http://cow.org/r/?5459 >> http://cow.org/r/?545a >> >>

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Anyone know where the actual cut is? Based on the previously posted news articles .. First one is in this proximity : 37°15'20.79"N 121°48'9.38"W Second one is in this proximity : 37°29'44.00"N 122°14'44.31"W First one is along a highway .. second one is along railroad tracks. Google

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

I had written in a NANOG reply: >Mike Lyon writes: >Anyone know where the actual cut is? > >According to SF Chronicle: >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/09/BAP816VTE6.DTL&tsp=1 > >"The fiber-optic cables were severed shortly before 1:30 a.m. along Monterey >Highway north of

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> My cellphones show one or no bars.   Normally they are all four bars. hmmm, probably not related but could be that some cellphone operators are restricting coverage to give priority to emergency svcs communications.

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff didn't demand protected facilities for 911 is another mind boggling issue. That there is no over-under wide-area back-up c

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Robert M. Enger wrote: We posture and orate about being prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters, and then events like these reveal the reality: The emperor has no clothes. You wouldn't have clothes either if you could double your profit by not wearing any. Matthew Kaufman

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Yeah, that's about the right amount of time to crawl out of a man hole, cover it back up, get in the car, drive to a 24 hour starbucks, pick up some coffee and drive up to San Carlos, open man-hole, repeat process... On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM, George William Herbert wrote: > > I had writt

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: >From the news coverage it appears to be in the general area of http://cow.org/r/?545c -r Interesting. The report I got from a vendor was that it is Above.net with a fiber cut in Redwood City which is affecting a circuit of mine between 200 Paul in SF and PA

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Jorge Amodio wrote: On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: isn't there a mailing list for this sort of thing? outages@ I think it is? Jared put together long time ago seems to still be active and receiving reports about this one. Virenda Rode started the outages mailing

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, George William Herbert wrote: "The fiber-optic cables were severed shortly before 1:30 a.m. along Monterey Highway north of Blossom Hill Road in south San Jose, police Sgt. Ronnie Lopez said." The fact that it's vandalism is VERY annoying. Sadly it also shows how vulnerabl

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Michael Holstein wrote: > > First one is in this proximity :  37°15'20.79"N 121°48'9.38"W Street view shows a few manholes in the vicinity. > Second one is in this proximity :  37°29'44.00"N 122°14'44.31"W Didn't see anything obvious here. -- Jeff Ollie

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Michael Holstein wrote: Anyone know where the actual cut is? Based on the previously posted news articles .. First one is in this proximity : 37°15'20.79"N 121°48'9.38"W Second one is in this proximity : 37°29'44.00"N 122°14'44.31"W First one is along a highway .. second one is along

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

.us] Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:59 PM To: Roy Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff didn'

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Apr 9, 2009, at 3:58 PM, Robert M. Enger wrote: That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff didn't demand protected facilities for 911 is another mind boggling

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Yep it leads to: Activity Type Code Desc: PROGRESS COMMENTS Activity Type Code: PROG OTDR readings were taken by AT&T West and a cut was located 1600 ft from the San Jose, CA central office. AT&T West technicians are onsite working to isolate the exact location of the cut. There are 4 ca

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

There were multiple cuts. South san jose and san carlos. Yours would be the san carlos one :) On 4/9/09, David Edwards wrote: > At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: >> >From the news coverage it appears to be in the general area of >>http://cow.org/r/?545c >> >>-r > > Interesting. The report I got f

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

David Edwards wrote: > At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: >> >From the news coverage it appears to be in the general area of >> http://cow.org/r/?545c >> >> -r > > Interesting. The report I got from a vendor was that it is Above.net > with a fiber cut in Redwood City which is affecting a circuit

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Robert M. Enger wrote: That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff didn't demand protected facilities for 911 is another mind boggling issue. 911 centers can work ju

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Looks like our circuit out of 200 paul from abovenet is back up. -Original Message- From: David Edwards [mailto:da...@reliablehosting.com] Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:06 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: > >From th

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

David Edwards wrote: At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: >From the news coverage it appears to be in the general area of http://cow.org/r/?545c -r Interesting. The report I got from a vendor was that it is Above.net with a fiber cut in Redwood City which is affecting a circuit of mine between

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

http://i.gizmodo.com/5205952/att-putting-up-10-reward-for-cable-cutting-vandals r On Apr 9, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Michael Holstein wrote: First one is in this proximity : 37°15'20.79"N 121°48'9.38"W Street view shows a few manholes in

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Jared Mauch wrote: On Apr 9, 2009, at 3:58 PM, Robert M. Enger wrote: That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff didn't demand protected facilities for 911 is ano

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 02:06:04PM -0600, David Edwards wrote: > At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: > >>From the news coverage it appears to be in the general area of > >http://cow.org/r/?545c > > > >-r > > Interesting. The report I got from a vendor was that it is Above.net > with a fiber cut in

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: >> That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff >> didn't demand protected facilities for 911 is another mind boggling issue. > >  This costs $$$ and usually isn't a problem as there are other ways to > communicate.

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

ge- > From: David Edwards [mailto:da...@reliablehosting.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:06 PM > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area > > At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: > > >From the news coverage it appears to be in the general ar

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Jared Mauch wrote: That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. Only helps with N-1 breaks. Unfortunately, sometimes there are N+1 breaks. Check the NANOG archives, I believe there were 5 breaks in one day in the 1990's; an

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Ben Scott wrote: > > #ifdef CONSPIRACY_THEORIST > > What if this isn't simple vandalism? > > #endif > If my read is correct, this is multiple cuts in multiple locations. To answer the what-if ("What if this isn't simple vandalism?") : It's not. -jamie

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

No RF, no WPS. If all the base stations are knocked out in a region, and there is no "over" coverage from towers out of the affected region then there are no channels to which priority access can be allotted. A potential remedy (at least for conventional cell phones) would be to scatter bac

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Scott Doty wrote: >(Personally, I can think of a "MAE-Clueless" episode that was worse than >this, but that was in the 90's...) The gas main strike out front of the building in Santa Clara? Or something else? -george william herbert gherb...@retro.com

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

George William Herbert wrote: Scott Doty wrote: (Personally, I can think of a "MAE-Clueless" episode that was worse than this, but that was in the 90's...) The gas main strike out front of the building in Santa Clara? Or something else? -george william herbert gherb...@retro.com

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Apr 10, 2009, at 3:41 PM, Scott Doty wrote: George William Herbert wrote: Scott Doty wrote: (Personally, I can think of a "MAE-Clueless" episode that was worse than this, but that was in the 90's...) The gas main strike out front of the building in Santa Clara? Or something else? -ge

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of you arguing that this is not enough, I would say at least it

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Jo¢ wrote: > > I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. > All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access > data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but > at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of > you arguing that this is not enough

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> Jo¢ wrote: > > I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. > > All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access > > data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but > > at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of > > you arguing that this is not

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Once upon a time, Jo¢ said: > Yes if enough time goes by anything can happen, but how can one > argue an ATM machince that has (at times) thousands of dollars stands > out 24/7 without more immediate wealth. Perhaps I am missing > something here, do the Cops stake out those areas? dunno We've had

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

* Joe Greco: > The ATM machine is somewhat protected for the extremely obvious reason > that it has cash in it, but an ATM is hardly impervious. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8WM8ZZDHk Heh. Once you install ATMs into solid walls, the attacks get a tad more interesting. In some places of

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Joe Greco: > >> The ATM machine is somewhat protected for the extremely obvious reason >> that it has cash in it, but an ATM is hardly impervious. >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8WM8ZZDHk > > Heh.  Once you install ATMs into solid

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

The best protecion is good engineering taking advantage of technologies and architecures available since long time ago at any of the different network layers. Why network operators/carriers don't do it ?, it's another issue and most of the time is a question of bottom line numbers for which there

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Jo? wrote: I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of you arguing that this is not enough, I would say a

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> The real problem is route redundancy.  This is what the original contract > from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! s/DARPA/ARPA/; s/BBM/BBN/; s/Internet/ARPAnet/. BBN won the contract to build the first four IMPs. Theory and research about it is older, look at: http://www.lk.cs.

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Roger Marquis wrote: The real problem is route redundancy. This is what the original contract from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! "The net" was created to enable communications bttn point A and point B in this exact scenario. Uh, not exactly. There was

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/connectivity. Me thinks its doubtful. I also wonder if the bigger pharmacies such as Longs, Walgreens, Rite-Aid, Etc had thought about these kinds of issues? I personally

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> Read the original DARPA papers, they were not about making sure grandma > could still make a phone call. That's a great explanation in few words. > Everything fails sometimes.  What's your plan? Even the failover plans ... Cheers Jorge

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

While OT the news reports indicated ATMs were offline and many credit card processing machines were down. This is no big shock because many ATM networks are on frame relay and POS credit card machines use POTS lines. The outage also impacted mobile service too if it hadn't been said. I hope we c

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many > banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/connectivity. Me > thinks its doubtful. > > ... Because of the loss of the alarm systems, many banks went to a method where only one or two people we

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Don't really care so much about the bank's security, especially if it was one that received some the bailout money :) I was more worried about if people could make withdraws from their bank accounts. Deposits they could do as they could enter them in later but withdraws I think would be different.

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Sean Donelan wrote: > > Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also > N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of > the country's telecommunication system was unaffected. So in that > sense the system worked as designed. > About eight o

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

, April 11, 2009 6:02 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Sean Donelan wrote: > > Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also > N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of > the country's telecommunication sy

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Jorge Amodio wrote: s/DARPA/ARPA/; s/BBM/BBN/; s/Internet/ARPAnet/. /DARPA/ARPA/ may be splitting hairs. According to http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ii_roberts.htm "DARPA head Charlie Hertzfeld promised IPTO Director Bob Taylor a million dollars to build a distributed communications netwo

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

An easy way to describe what your saying is "Security by obscurity is not security" On Apr 11, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Joe Greco wrote: Jo¢ wrote: I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access data areas. Not that every area of fiber sh

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Roger Marquis wrote: >> Why didn't the "man in the street" pharmacy have its own backup plans? > > I assume they, as most of us, believed the government was taking care of > the country's critical infrastructure. Interesting how well this > illustrates the growing importance of the Internet vis-

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> An easy way to describe what your saying is "Security by obscurity is > not security" Yes and no. From a certain point of view, security is almost always closely tied to obscurity. A cylinder lock is simply a device that operates through principles that are relatively unknown to the average

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Joe Greco wrote: My point was more the inverse, which is that a determined, equipped, and knowledgeable attacker is a very difficult thing to defend against. "The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Diamond Heist" published recently in Wired was a good read on that subject: http://www.wired

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Joe Greco wrote: Public key crypto is, pretty much by definition, reliant on the obscurity of private keys in order to make it work. In security terms, public key crypto is not "security by obscurity", as the obscurity part is related to how the method works, and the key

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Christopher Morrow wrote: I'm not sure that the manholes == atm discussion is valid, but in the end the same thing is prone to happen to the manholes, there isn't going to be a unique key per manhole, at best it'll be 1/region or 1/manhole-owner. In the end that key is compr

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> > Joe Greco wrote: > > > My point was more the inverse, which is that a determined, equipped, > > and knowledgeable attacker is a very difficult thing to defend against. > > "The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Diamond Heist" published > recently in Wired was a good read on that subject:

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Mike Lewinski wrote: Joe Greco wrote: Which brings me to a new point: if we accept that "security by obscurity is not security," then, what (practical thing) IS security? Obscurity as a principle works just fine provided the given token is obscure enough. Ideally there are layers of "securit

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:18:04 -0500 Stephen Sprunk wrote: > Mike Lewinski wrote: > > Joe Greco wrote: > >> Which brings me to a new point: if we accept that "security by > >> obscurity is not security," then, what (practical thing) IS > >> security? > > > > Obscurity as a principle works just fi

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

ner, Network Engineer Consulting Radiologists, Ltd. 1221 Nicollet Mall, Minneapolis, MN 55403 ph. 612.573.2236 fax. 612.573.2250 dylan.eb...@crlmed.com www.consultingradiologists.com -Original Message- From: Joe Greco [mailto:jgr...@ns.sol.net] Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 7:12 AM To:

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: Manhole locks are just going to stop vandalism, and I think the threat to obstruction calculation just doesn't add up for that small level of isolated cases. It doesn't stop it, it just makes it slightly harder, and they'll go after another point.

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

and the wiring frame boxes for pots line neither.. Its all of a matter of how much cash they wanna throw at it... Sent on the Now Network� from my Sprint® BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "Dylan Ebner" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:57:30 To: Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: Manhole locks are just going to stop vandalism, and I think the threat to obstruction calculation just doesn't add up for that small level of isolated cases. It doesn't stop it, it just makes it slightly harder, and they'll go afte

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On 4/13/09, Dylan Ebner wrote: > My point is, it is getting harder and harder to gurantee path divergence > and sometimes the redundancies need to be built into the workflow > instead of IT. Actually, in many ways it's getting easier; now, you can sign an NDA with your fiber providers and get

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

I guess the next generation fiber networks will need to be installed with tunnel boring machines and just not surface anywhere except the endpoints :) After all, undersea cables get along just fine without convenient access along their length... On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Mikael Abrahamsso

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Or skip the locks and fill the manholes with sand. Then provide the service folks those big suction trucks to remove the sand for servicing :) On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > > On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > Manhole locks are just going to

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dorn Hetzel wrote: I guess the next generation fiber networks will need to be installed with tunnel boring machines and just not surface anywhere except the endpoints :) After all, undersea cables get along just fine without convenient access along their length... Boat an

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: It will be easier to get more divergence than secure all the manholes in the country. I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a better solution. You can't keep people out,

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote: Peter Beckman [mailto:beck...@angryox.com] wrote: Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:19 AM To: Dylan Ebner Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: It will be easier to get more divergence

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

--- beck...@angryox.com wrote: >> I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access >> points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a >> better solution. > > The only thing missing from your plan was a cost analysis. Cost of each, > plus operational costs, * however many

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Scott Weeks wrote: --- beck...@angryox.com wrote: I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a better solution. The only thing missing from your plan was a cost analysis. Cost of each, plus op

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Peter Beckman [mailto:beck...@angryox.com] wrote: >Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:19 AM >To: Dylan Ebner >Cc: nanog@nanog.org >Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area > >On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: > >> It will be easier to get more divergence than secure all the

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

>>> On 4/13/2009 at 1:12 PM, Peter Beckman wrote: > On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Scott Weeks wrote: > >> >> >> --- beck...@angryox.com wrote: >> I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a better solution. >>> >>>

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Hi Peter, You wrote: > So, let's see. I'm pulling numbers out of my butt here, > Total cost...is about $3000 per mile for equipment > It could run on an overhead monorail > Network it all > Confickr-type domains to make sure I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated lar

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote: I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated large networks. Nope. You never did say what the multiplier was. How many miles or detection nodes there were. Think millions. The number that popped into my head when thinking of active

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

This all implies that the majority of fiber is in "tunnels" that can be monitored. In my experience, almost none of it is in tunnels. In NYC, it's usually buried in conduits directly under the street, with no access, except through the man holes which are located about every 500 feet. In

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

--- On Mon, 4/13/09, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote: >> From: Peter Beckman >> Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area > >  Total cost...is about $3000 per mile for > equipment > I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated large > networks.  You never did say what

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On 14/04/2009, at 11:35 AM, David Barak wrote: In addition, as has been noted, this system wouldn't PREVENT a failure, it would just give you some warning that a failure may be coming, probably by a matter of minutes. Some statistics about the effectiveness of car alarms and unmonitored

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

"But that would not be NEBS Complient" -PHB I have thought of air horns in my colo cage when a tech of mine messes up. --Original Message-- From: Nathan Ward To: nanog list Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Sent: Apr 13, 2009 4:55 PM On 14/04/2009, at 11:35 AM, David B

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Nathan Ward wrote: Whack a $5 12v horn on it, and my bet is that it'd become a deterrent pretty quickly. Presumes the perp isn't familiar with the hole, and it's security measures. In this case, I doubt that either is the case. Pop in, snip the wires on the horn, and do what you do. Most of

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