Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

> That's where the confusion sets in, and Randy even stated that the UCLA > data is suspect; partially because it considers a stub to be 4 or less > downstream ASNs. I think Randy's data would be better reflected without > the UCLA information which just confuses it. the first pie chart uses no

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

Hi, The classification we have is one possible classification, it's hard (if not impossible) to capture the diversity of the network in 4 classes without having mislabels. We noticed that there were a considerable number of networks with special arrangements (i.e. a very small number of lo

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

Pete Templin wrote: Skimming the paper turns up a key sentence, "Stub networks, on the other hand, do not forward packets for other networks." What part of that led you to think that stub networks forward packets for 1-4 downstream ASNs? That's where the confusion sets in, and Randy even st

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

Lixia Zhang wrote: On Jun 24, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Pete Templin wrote: In (your) theory, your paper may hold up. In practice, your definition of stub network is most likely considered wrong, and that likely shifts a lot of the assumptions in your paper. But I also believe that there are a fe

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

> That was my assumption when I checked the "UCLA is wrong" button on the > form. We only have one downstream, but it's a distinct ASN so that says > "not stub" to me. this ucla fantasy imposing their social model on actual measurements is merely amusing and does little damage. researchers seem

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

On Jun 24, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Pete Templin wrote: Ricardo Oliveira wrote: Jack, Please give me your ASN and i'll double check our data. As long as the network has 4 or less downstreams, it's being labeled as "stub". More details here: http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~rveloso/papers/completeness-ton

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

nct ASN so that says "not stub" to me. Mike Randy top posting - will wonders never cease. -Original Message- From: Randy Bush [mailto:ra...@psg.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:58 AM To: Ricardo Oliveira Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in phi

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

8025, and thanks for labeling us small transit guys as stub. I have transit customers that have higher user counts than I do. :P Randy's page just mentioned stub as not having transit customers. By your definition, we are stub. 4 ASNs under mine, since customers not needing BGP don't use it an

RE: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

h [mailto:ra...@psg.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:58 AM > To: Ricardo Oliveira > Cc: NANOG list > Subject: Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly,see it now on > the net! > > OK,a buckety of salt. > > From my pov, a stub has zero downstreams. >

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

Ricardo Oliveira wrote: Jack, Please give me your ASN and i'll double check our data. As long as the network has 4 or less downstreams, it's being labeled as "stub". More details here: http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~rveloso/papers/completeness-ton.pdf I guess the old adage, "In theory, theory and p

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

OK,a buckety of salt. From my pov, a stub has zero downstreams. randy, on iPhone On Jun 24, 2009, at 10:39, Ricardo Oliveira wrote: Jack, Please give me your ASN and i'll double check our data. As long as the network has 4 or less downstreams, it's being labeled as "stub". More details h

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

Jack, Please give me your ASN and i'll double check our data. As long as the network has 4 or less downstreams, it's being labeled as "stub". More details here: http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~rveloso/papers/completeness-ton.pdf Thanks, --Ricardo On Jun 24, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Jack Bates wrote: Ran

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

> Was also reported as a stub. Glad to know that I don't have BGP > customers. Oh, wait, I do. :) talk to ucla. as i said, we take their classification with a grain of salt. randy

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:04 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> One point of clarity here.  Lightning talks are scheduled in a more >> spur of the moment fashion than the traditional submission process for >> general sessions. > > which was why this one was on the web agenda at as specific time?  :) > > sorr

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

Randy Bush wrote: please do check your as at and then actually look at your router config. i found one of my routers still had a default from when i was bringing it up. Ick. Nothing was right. Reported as mixed, though that may be my fault and not your testing. Hmmm.

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

> One point of clarity here.  Lightning talks are scheduled in a more > spur of the moment fashion than the traditional submission process for > general sessions. which was why this one was on the web agenda at as specific time? :) sorry my attempt at dealing with todd's screw-up with humor evok

Re: Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

One point of clarity here. Lightning talks are scheduled in a more spur of the moment fashion than the traditional submission process for general sessions. We often schedule lightning talks around a topic with potential to run short if Q&A isn't significant or we have a 15 minute gap before a bre

Use of Default in the DFZ: banned in philly, see it now on the net!

due to nanog pc silliness, my lightning talk on $subject was not given in philly. i had promised to report to nanog the results of our winter experiment which used as path poisoning. here is the lightning talk i would have given. http://archive.psg.com/090615.nanog-default.pdf this is really