yle.cre...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:52 PM
> To: Jeroen van Aart
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please
> help if you can.
>
> In most jurisdictions, wouldn't using a de-gaussing ring in the door
> fra
On 12/18/12, Henry Yen wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 20:45:04AM -0600, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> Physical threat is somewhat different than seizure by law enforcement,
> though.
I'm not so sure about that. It's a kind of physical threat; the set
of all physical threats includes a subset of threat
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 20:45:04AM -0600, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> If you _must_ be able to protect data from extreme
> physical threats: keep it encrypted end to end at all times,
Physical threat is somewhat different than seizure by law enforcement, though.
Although mooted when authorities decrypt
On 12-12-17 21:45, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> Yeah... degaussing rings consume a lot of energy you shouldn't need
> to consume.
Now now, you clearly have not watched enough scient fiction/action
movies... Clearly, you have a mechanism which triggers the degaussing
(or neutron bomb in the basement th
On 12/17/12, Mark Andrews wrote:
> In message <34925.1355780...@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>,
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:28:28 -0500, Peter Kristolaitis said:
Yeah... degaussing rings consume a lot of energy you shouldn't need
to consume. If you _must_ be able to protect data from extreme
physica
In message <34925.1355780...@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu
writes:
> --==_Exmh_1355780734_2398P
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:28:28 -0500, Peter Kristolaitis said:
>
> > Now, having said all that... I'm not sure I'd want to pay the
>
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:28:28 -0500, Peter Kristolaitis said:
> Now, having said all that... I'm not sure I'd want to pay the
> electricity bill for keeping that degausser running... :p
An EMP device doesn't have to chew power all the time...
And of course, there's this: http://www.youtube.com/wa
Drifting a big off topic for NANOG (but hey, that happens every /pi/
days anyways!), but I'll toss this in...
Like every other legal incident, it would be unique to your own
situation. Keep in mind that, should any of the charges you mentioned
go to court, the prosecution would have to prove
In most jurisdictions, wouldn't using a de-gaussing ring in the door frame
to wipe any equipment being removed constitute "tampering with evidence" or
interfering with an investigation if the authority in question is in
possession of a warrant/subpoena?
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Jeroen van
On 11/30/2012 02:02 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
OK, there must be a lot more paranoid people out there than I thought
for awhile? I am sure he will let you out to go to the bank, get your
stuff, and leave town. I think you have seen way to many movies.
So if the cops show up at his door tom
ber 30, 2012 9:20 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Please help if you can.
On 11/30/12 5:15 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> Well, in that case I am really worried that the cops might charge
> me with a crime. They took my computers an
[mailto:william.allen.simp...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 9:20 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Please help if you can.
On 11/30/12 5:15 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> Well, in that case I am really worried that the cops mi
Hi!
Forwarding my answer to tor-talk list.
Mitar
-- Forwarded message --
From: Mitar
Date: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit
node. Please help if you can.
To: tor-t...@lists.torproject.org
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Hi
On 3 December 2012 07:19, Joakim Aronius wrote:
> I am all for providing anonymized access to help free speech. Perhaps its
> better with anon access to specific applications like twitter, fb etc and
> not general internet access. I suspect that the 'free speech' part of the
> total tor traffic
* Joel jaeggli (joe...@bogus.com) wrote:
> On 11/29/12 23:18 , Joakim Aronius wrote:
>
> > I am all for being anonymous on the net but I seriously believe that
> > we still need to enforce the law when it comes to serious felonies
> > like child pr0n, organized crime etc, we can't give them a free
On 2012-12-02 22:44, Michael Painter wrote:
Joel jaeggli wrote:
The internet is potentially quite a useful tool for getting your message
out so long as using it isn't holding a gun to your own head. While we
site here with the convenient idea of some legal arbitrage which allows
me to do somet
Joel jaeggli wrote:
The internet is potentially quite a useful tool for getting your message
out so long as using it isn't holding a gun to your own head. While we
site here with the convenient idea of some legal arbitrage which allows
me to do something which isn't illegal in my own domain to
On 11/29/12 23:18 , Joakim Aronius wrote:
> I am all for being anonymous on the net but I seriously believe that
> we still need to enforce the law when it comes to serious felonies
> like child pr0n, organized crime etc, we can't give them a free pass
> just by using Tor. I dont think it should b
I think one error being made here is discussing the culpability of law
enforcement per se.
That's like blaming the UPS delivery person because something you
bought from Amazon was misleading. Or praising him/her because it was
great.
One way of asserting authority over any property is making ver
> The BBC has an article about a similar issue on a Tor exit node in Austria:
> Austrian police raid privacy network over child porn
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20554788
actually it is not a "similar case" but the case of William W. that
BBC reported. Though with some mistakes: the ser
> Example of an actual warrant:
>
>
> https://www.eff.org/sites/default/files/filenode/inresearchBC/EXHIBIT-A.pdf
Please also keep in mind, if it's relevant, that *no warrant* is required for
data that is stored by a third-party. Data on a server, TOR or otherwise,
would by definition be dat
On 12/1/2012 11:01 AM, Jimmy Hess wrote:
Anyone, including people off the street, can have opinions about the
Law, and opinions about networks. Would you be willing to rely
some stranger off the street, with no qualifications, or positive
background whatsoever, to start recommending a n
On 12/1/12, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 20:25 , Randy Bush wrote:
> As for "the legal crap", most of what is posted is not on-topic here. There
> are laws & legal implications which are operational, though. And even
> though I am not a lawyer, I need to understand them or I
On Dec 1, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
>>
>> It amazes me how people feel free to opine on things...
>
> Actually, what really bugs/amazes me about that thread is that the
> person whom this thread was originally about I
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
>
> It amazes me how people feel free to opine on things...
Actually, what really bugs/amazes me about that thread is that the
person whom this thread was originally about IS NOT EVEN FROM THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
CALEA, DMCA, yadda,
The BBC has an article about a similar issue on a Tor exit node in Austria:
Austrian police raid privacy network over child porn
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20554788
##
Austrian police have seized servers that were part of a global anonymous
browsing system, after images showing child s
On Nov 30, 2012, at 20:25 , Randy Bush wrote:
>> Not a lawyer.
>
> than stfu with the legal crap
It amazes me how people feel free to opine on things like networking without a
certification, but if you don't have a law degree, suddenly they believe you
are incapable of understanding anything
am Freitag, 30. November 2012 um 22:30 schrieb NANOG list:
> WAIT A SECOND HERE!?!?
> I just read below that this guy runs a large ISP in Austria.
The info from tor-talk was somewhat misleading. William Weber is not
the owner of the ISP. He works there as an administrator. So he runs
it (maybe)
On Nov 30, 2012, at 7:20 PM, William Allen Simpson wrote:
> As well you could be, because you appear to have the same name as a
> registered sex offender:
Hey, that's a fun game:
http://www.sexoffenderin.com/reg77161/william_a_simpsonmugshot.htm
> As well you could be, because you appear to have the same name as a
> registered sex offender:
ok children. can we pull ourselves up out of the mud, please?
randy
On 11/30/12 5:15 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
Well, in that case I am really worried that the cops might charge
me with a crime. They took my computers and are looking at them. I did
not do anything wrong but just in case they decide to charge me with a
crime, please send me some money.
As
>
> Not only that, but the list of people who proclaimed their innocence only
> to be proven guilty is very long. I can't vouch for countries outside of
> the USA, but here at least we don't get subpoenas on a whim. They are
> usually part of a very long drawn-out investigation, and they usually a
> Not a lawyer.
than stfu with the legal crap
PROCEDURE FOR SEIZURE OF COMPUTERS AND RELATED DEVICES
This search warrant covers and controls the procedure for searching: (1)
electronic or computer devices, related equipment or media which has been
authorized to be seized pursuant to this warrant on the basis that it is
contraband or a direc
as this thread has moved firmly to legal opinions, i now scan it for
postings by folk i know are actual lawyers and whack the rest. if you
are a lawyer, but not well known as such, please say so right up front
in your message.
randy
PM
To: Naslund, Steve; NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
Naslund, Steve wrote:
> I might be reading this the wrong way but it looked to me like the
> cops raided his home and the Tor server is hosted off site with an
> ISP. T
Naslund, Steve wrote:
I might be reading this the wrong way but it looked to me like the cops
raided his home and the Tor server is hosted off site with an ISP. That
is what is bugging me so much. The cops raided his house, not the
location of the server. If they had tracked the server by its
nt: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
> if you can.
>
> I didn't say anything about trying to run away. That probably won't
> accomplish a whole lot in the long run. But
PM
To: Jimmy Hess
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> On 11/29/12, William Herrin wrote:
>> If the computer at IP:port:timestamp transmitted child porn, a
>> warrant fo
012 4:21 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
I didn't say anything about trying to run away. That probably won't
accomplish a whole lot in the long run. But when all of your bank
accounts and credit cards are f
)?
Steven Naslund
-Original Message-
From: Eric Wieling [mailto:ewiel...@nyigc.com]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:12 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you
can.
>-Original Message-
>From: Peter Kristolai
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> On 11/29/12, William Herrin wrote:
>> If the computer at IP:port:timestamp transmitted child porn, a warrant
>> for "all computers" is also too broad. "Computers which use said IP
>
> As you know, there may always be some uncertainty about whic
s show up at his door tomorrow and say "Here's all your
stuff back, there was no evidence of a crime.", you are OK with this
guys keeping the "defense fund"?
Steve
-Original Message-
From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alte...@alter3d.ca]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 3:
-
From: Warren Bailey [mailto:wbai...@satelliteintelligencegroup.com]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:12 PM
To: Naslund, Steve; NANOG list
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Please help if you can.
When is the last time you were arrested, or even in a
legal expenses which i expect to
>
>> > be around 5000-1 EUR.
>
>So you know how much it costs to defend a case with unknown charges and
>without knowing if you will be arrested yet?!?!?!
>
>This whole thing sounds flakier with every new detail.
>
&g
>-Original Message-
>From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alte...@alter3d.ca]
>Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:53 PM
>To: nanog@nanog.org
>Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
>you can.
>
> (Note: I don't mean to imply t
>From: Jimmy Hess [mailto:mysi...@gmail.com]
>Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 3:47 PM
>To: William Herrin
>Cc: NANOG list
>Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please
help if you can.
>On 11/29/12, William Herrin wrote:
>> If the compu
r running a Tor exit node.
Please help if you can.
- Forwarded message from Asad Haider -
From: Asad Haider
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +
To: tor-t...@lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Please help if
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> If they had a qualified technician, they probably wouldn't be raiding
> a TOR exit node in the first place; they would have investigated the
> matter more thoroughly, and saved precious time.
And what if the TOR exit node was in the cloud?
this
guys keeping the "defense fund"?
Steve
-Original Message-
From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alte...@alter3d.ca]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 3:53 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On 11/30/
ct: RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012, Naslund, Steve wrote:
[...]
>
> When it comes to running an open access point, I think the legal issue
> would be negligence. Is it negligence for the 90 year old grandma to
> have
On 11/30/2012 04:01 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
I am a little concerned that this guy keeps a safe deposit box with a burner
phone and cash around. Is he a CIA agent? :)
Anyone who DOESN'T have such things stashed away somewhere is, IMHO,
incredibly naive and taking on quite a large amount of
On 11/29/12, William Herrin wrote:
> If the computer at IP:port:timestamp transmitted child porn, a warrant
> for "all computers" is also too broad. "Computers which use said IP
As you know, there may always be some uncertainty about which computer
was using a certain IP address at a certain tim
ct: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Please help if you can.
- Forwarded message from Asad Haider -
From: Asad Haider
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +0000
To: tor-t...@lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node
>-Original Message-
>From: Rich Kulawiec [mailto:r...@gsp.org]
>Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 6:59 AM
>To: nanog@nanog.org
>Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please
help if you can.
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 08:04:02AM -0500, Chris quote
On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:58 AM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 08:04:02AM -0500, Chris quoted (William):
>> Yes, it happened to me now as well - Yesterday i got raided for
>> someone sharing child pornography over one of my Tor exits.
>
> Question: what evidence has been published
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Barry Shein wrote:
> Yeah, next they'll let just anyone walk down the sidewalk without
> identifying themselves. And those are public sidewalks paid for by tax
> dollars!
If you hang out with criminals, sooner or later you'll encounter a
situation where there is
Barry Shein wrote:
On November 30, 2012 at 08:18 joa...@aronius.se (Joakim Aronius) wrote:
>
> I am all for being anonymous on the net but I seriously believe that we
still need to enforce the law when it comes to serious felonies like child pr0n,
organized crime etc, we can't give them a f
On November 30, 2012 at 08:18 joa...@aronius.se (Joakim Aronius) wrote:
>
> I am all for being anonymous on the net but I seriously believe that we
> still need to enforce the law when it comes to serious felonies like child
> pr0n, organized crime etc, we can't give them a free pass just b
On November 29, 2012 at 11:50 george.herb...@gmail.com (George Herbert) wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Tom Beecher wrote:
> > Assuming it's true, it was bound to happen. Running anything , TOR or
> > otherwise, that allows strangers to do whatever they want is just folly.
>
> Su
>I think if they took the cash registers too the >Starbucks lawyer would be
in court an hour later >with a motion to quash in one hand and an offer of
>full cooperation in the other.
>Regards, Bill Herrin
The standard, in the U.S., is "any electronic device capable of storing
data".
On 2012-11-30 13:51 , Joakim Aronius wrote:
> * Will Hargrave (w...@harg.net) wrote:
>>
>> On 29 Nov 2012, at 20:53, George Herbert
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The assertion being made here, that it's somehow illegal (or
>>> immoral, or scary) for there to be not-completely-traceable
>>> internet access in
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 08:04:02AM -0500, Chris quoted (William):
> Yes, it happened to me now as well - Yesterday i got raided for
> someone sharing child pornography over one of my Tor exits.
Question: what evidence has been published -- that is, placed somewhere
that we can all see it -- that s
* Will Hargrave (w...@harg.net) wrote:
>
> On 29 Nov 2012, at 20:53, George Herbert wrote:
>
> > The assertion being made here, that it's somehow illegal (or immoral,
> > or scary) for there to be not-completely-traceable internet access in
> > the US, is absurd.
>
> The real issue here is *not
Joakim Aronius wrote:
Lets assume that some child pr0n dealer used this Tor exit node, is it not reasonable if the police wants to see if
there are
logs that make it possible to catch the sleazebag? Should LE ignore crime if it originates from a network which operates
a Tor
exit node?
I am all
- Forwarded message from Asad Haider -
From: Asad Haider
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +
To: tor-t...@lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node.
Please help if you can.
Reply-To: tor-t...@lists.torproject.org
William will
* Patrick W. Gilmore (patr...@ianai.net) wrote:
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 12:58 , Barry Shein wrote:
> > It would seem like they'd have to confiscate the equipment at every
> > Starbucks in their jurisdiction, which could be every one in the US
> > for example.
>
> They didn't confiscate every Tor ex
Yes, but if you are operating a TOR node, it's not entirely clear to me that
you are not actually an ISP (whether you
realize that or not).
You are, after all, providing a form of internet access to non-paying customers.
Owen
On Nov 29, 2012, at 11:58 , Tom Beecher wrote:
> Not really compara
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Jim Mercer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 01:19:19PM -0600, Naslund, Steve wrote:
>> I think the best analogy I would use in defense is something like the
>> pre-paid cellular phones that are sold. That is about the only
>> anonymous communications service I can
On 29 Nov 2012, at 20:53, George Herbert wrote:
> The assertion being made here, that it's somehow illegal (or immoral,
> or scary) for there to be not-completely-traceable internet access in
> the US, is absurd.
The real issue here is *not* the legality of the act of providing a Tor exit
node
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012, Naslund, Steve wrote:
[...]
When it comes to running an open access point, I think the legal issue
would be negligence. Is it negligence for the 90 year old grandma to
have an open AP (probably not, just didn't know better)? Is it
negligence for me to have an open AP (pro
Comments deep below.
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
> 2. If I provide access to four or five friends, I am not an ISP and in
> fact I am responsible if they use my connection to do something illegal
> since I am the customer of re
ct: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Naslund, Steve
wrote:
> The entire point of Tor is to be untraceable back to the source.
> Egress filters can prevent future abuse but do not provide for tracing
> back to the ori
Naslund, Steve wrote:
1. Running open access wireless does not make you legally an ISP and if
your open wireless is used to commit a crime you could be criminally
negligent if you did not take "reasonable care" in the eyes of the
court.
Related:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/07/judge-copy
Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
2. If I provide access to four or five friends, I am not an ISP and in
fact I am responsible if they use my connection to do something illegal
since I am the customer of record. If you loan your car to an
unlicensed driver and he kills someone, y
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012, Naslund, Steve wrote:
1. Running open access wireless does not make you legally an ISP and if
OK.
your open wireless is used to commit a crime you could be criminally
negligent if you did not take "reasonable care" in the eyes of the
court.
I believe this is incorrect un
not taking the required
reporting/preservation/destruction actions as required by law.
And in practice, the process is:
On 11/29/2012 5:06 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:26:57 -0500
From: Tom Beecher
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:26:57 -0500
> From: Tom Beecher
> Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
> you can.
>
> Communications Decency Act, 47 U.S.C. 230 is the US law that has been
> interpreted to provide immunity to ISP for
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 01:19:19PM -0600, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> I think the best analogy I would use in defense is something like the
> pre-paid cellular phones that are sold. That is about the only
> anonymous communications service I can think of off the top of my head.
> Problem is that most
be criminally negligent. This is not
> so clear cut a case that there would not be a fight about it.
>
> Steven Naslund
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: George Herbert [mailto:george.herb...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 2:06 PM
> To: Tom Be
nt. This is not
so clear cut a case that there would not be a fight about it.
Steven Naslund
-Original Message-
From: George Herbert [mailto:george.herb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 2:06 PM
To: Tom Beecher
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> The entire point of Tor is to be untraceable back to the source. Egress
> filters can prevent future abuse but do not provide for tracing back to
> the original source of offending conduct. They are not trying to stop
> the flow of the dat
ge Herbert [mailto:george.herb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 2:14 PM
To: Naslund, Steve
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Naslund, Steve
wrote:
> ISPs also do not "allow stranger
Communications Decency Act, 47 U.S.C. ยง230 is the US law that has been
interpreted to provide immunity to ISP for the actions of their users.
Zeran v. America Online, Inc., 4th Circuit, 1997
Jane Doe v. America Online, Inc., 5th Circuit, 1997
Blumenthal v. Drudge, DC District, 1998
Green v. AOL,
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> ISPs also do not "allow strangers to do whatever they want" ISPs have
> responsibilities to act on DCMA notices and CALEA requests from law
> enforcement. These are things that Tor exit nodes are not capable of
> doing. If you were an IS
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Tom Beecher wrote:
> Not really comparable.
>
> Speaking from a US point of view, ISPs has strong legal protections
> isolating them from culpability for the actions of their customers. I know
> internationally things are different, but here in the US the ISP does
illiam was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Tom Beecher
wrote:
> Assuming it's true, it was bound to happen. Running anything , TOR or
> otherwise, that allows strangers to do whatever they want is just
folly.
Such as, say
Not really comparable.
Speaking from a US point of view, ISPs has strong legal protections
isolating them from culpability for the actions of their customers. I
know internationally things are different, but here in the US the ISP
doesn't get dinged, except in certain cases where they are lega
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Tom Beecher wrote:
> Assuming it's true, it was bound to happen. Running anything , TOR or
> otherwise, that allows strangers to do whatever they want is just folly.
Such as, say, an Internet Service Provider business?
...
--
-george william herbert
george.her
- Original Message -
> From: "Patrick W. Gilmore"
> > I think if they took the cash registers too the Starbucks lawyer would
> > be in court an hour later with a motion to quash in one hand and an
> > offer of full cooperation in the other.
>
> And if the sky were orange
>
> Any oth
- Original Message -
> From: "Patrick W. Gilmore"
> "Mere conduit" defense. (Please do not anyone mention "common carrier
> status" or the like, ISPs are _not_ common carriers.)
> Do you think if the police found out child pr0n was being served from
> a starbux they wouldn't confiscate t
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 13:57 , William Herrin wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore
>> wrote:
>>> Do you think if the police found out child pr0n was
>>> being served from a starbux they wouldn't
>>> confiscate
We had a guy (aka potential customer) inquire the other day about hosting a
Tor exit on our infrastructure the other day; he disappeared fairly
quickly when he figured out that we weren't just going to give him an
endless supply of unmetered 10G bandwidth. I was looking forward to
billing him. :
k W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:45 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
you can.
On Nov 29, 2012, at 11:17 , Barry Shein wrote:
> Back in the early days of the public internet we didn't requi
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 01:14:08AM +1100, Emily Ozols wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I gotta ask and I'm sure someone would if I didn't, but how do we know
> this guy is legit?
> He's jumped up on a forum saying, "Hey, police raided me, help. gib
> mone plz" and failed to provide and reason as to how he's real
ctual percentage of good vs. evil use really is.
Steven Naslund
-Original Message-
From: Barry Shein [mailto:b...@world.std.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:17 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
Back in the early days o
Assuming it's true, it was bound to happen. Running anything , TOR or
otherwise, that allows strangers to do whatever they want is just folly.
People will spend time and money securing their home wireless so their
neighbor can't steal their internet, but willingly allow strangers from
anywhere
@ianai.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:45 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On Nov 29, 2012, at 11:17 , Barry Shein wrote:
> Back in the early days of the public internet we didn't require any
> id to create
On Nov 29, 2012, at 13:57 , William Herrin wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore
> wrote:
>> Do you think if the police found out child pr0n was
>> being served from a starbux they wouldn't
>> confiscate the equipment from that store?
>
> I think if they took the cash r
It's difficult to compare a guy in Austria to a multi-billion dollar
corporation. Here in the US, the fed has charged 3 men with involuntary
manslaughter for their parts in the Gulf of Mexico Rig explosion. BP
received a slap on the wrist, and a decent (to us, not them) sized fine.
On 11/29/12 10:
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