Re: John Naughton on Shoshana Zuboff: 'The goal is to automate us': welcome to the age of surveillance capitalism

2019-01-28 Thread Morlock Elloi
- Booking targeted advertising becomes illegal/impossible, so you go back to do regular advertising. - Since the whole industry does the same, your competitors have no advantage over you. - If your business model was profoundly unethical, you go out of business. That is intentional. Tran

Re: John Naughton on Shoshana Zuboff: 'The goal is to automate us': welcome to the age of surveillance capitalism

2019-01-28 Thread Morlock Elloi
Then fascism is also "fascistic capitalism", as it (in the classical definition, not the NPC one) enables state-sponsored unbridled capitalistic exchange. And so on. The point is something else, and I'll try to explain it from the utilitarian perspective: The only observable effects of any a

Re: No evidence of digital wrong-doing...

2019-01-28 Thread Brian Holmes
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 9:58 AM tbyfield wrote: > The idea of a random group selected to become temporary experts convened > as > a stage in some momentous state action is hardly new. Exhibit A: the > jury. In that sense CAs seem a bit sketchy, somehow old and yet...not > old. They're like a wolp

Re: notes from Brexania in limbo...

2019-01-28 Thread André Rebentisch
Thank you Heiko for opening this discussion. Three anecdotal observations: 1. We had a referendum whether to keep Tegel Airport open. Citizens of Berlin got a letter from the government urging them to vote against. I think this should not happen as a matter of principle and is an abuse of executiv

Re: No evidence of digital wrong-doing...

2019-01-28 Thread tbyfield
I'd like to know more about the recent history of Citizens' Assemblies, in part because that context would probably dampen any tendency to treat them as yet another panacea in the medicine cabinet of utopianism. The idea of a random group selected to become temporary experts convened as a stage

Re: No evidence of digital wrong-doing...

2019-01-28 Thread David Garcia
I agree Felix that it is probably too late for Brexit..but... there remains a chance that the parliamentary log jam means that other options cannot gain a majority and there is enough of a realisation that ‘crashing out without a deal’ would be a disaster to make another referendum least worst

Re: No evidence of digital wrong-doing...

2019-01-28 Thread Felix Stalder
On 28.01.19 13:46, carlo von lynX wrote: > Even better when expert knowledge is in check by liquid > democracy rather than size-limited citizen assemblies. > We actually have a new technology that solves this > challenge but it is still being used too rarely. As far as I know from the German Pi

"Facebook is the New Crapware"

2019-01-28 Thread Geert Lovink
Dear nettimers, a. you have all left Facebook by now (or ages ago), b. you are still on it, c. could not be bothered, d. are busy with more relevant topics. Here is some material in case you want to be uptodate about the social media question. We’re now ten months into the Cambridge Analytica ca

Re: No evidence of digital wrong-doing...

2019-01-28 Thread David Garcia
Thanks Carlo, no need for an either/or choice here. I’d be interested in any examples you have of liquid democracy in action and yielding concrete results. > > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 09:35:35AM +, David Garcia wrote: >> Brilliant as O’tool’s artcle is, he and other commentators need

Re: No evidence of digital wrong-doing...

2019-01-28 Thread Joseph Rabie
"...is to make wrongdoing technically impossible..." I guess that all we have to do is get Adam and Eve to regurgitate the apple. Best - Joe. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural

No evidence of digital wrong-doing...

2019-01-28 Thread carlo von lynX
On 28 Jan 2019, at 06:15, Patrice Riemens wrote: > Heiko's remarks completely bypasses the fact (sorry, it's a fact) that the > British 'Brexit' referendum was a clusterfaktap of major magnitude (& > probably 'deliberate by default') in terms of how a real, valid referendum > should be prepared

Re: notes from Brexania in limbo...

2019-01-28 Thread David Garcia
Patrice, is completely right.. One of the amendments to May’s “deal" (sadly it will not succeed-it ay no longer be in play) is one to be put by Stella Creasy which would mandate more time by suspending article 50 not simply to delay the innevitable but of a final vote but a vote supported by

Re: notes from Brexania in limbo...

2019-01-28 Thread Heiko Recktenwald
Am 18/01/19 um 12:08 schrieb David Garcia: > > Finaly its a pity all these thinkers I am referencing are men.. How > much of these neo-nationalist pathologies are man made…? There is no difference. I have a brother in London with a small freehold house and family and the mother of the best frtien

Re: notes from Brexania in limbo...

2019-01-28 Thread Heiko Recktenwald
Dear all, Am 28/01/19 um 07:15 schrieb Patrice Riemens: << True democracy is direct democracy, difficult to handle as it is. Representative democracy, unless representatives are kept at a short leash by their constituents - never mind how representative a first pass the post system is - is a snap