Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-10 Thread Rob Myers
On 05/09/2012 10:31 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 10:45:33PM +0100, Rob Myers wrote: On 05/08/2012 05:52 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote: The curiously absent question is why there should be social media in the first place, and 'media' in general. Lascaux. Notice that memes and

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12 (Lascaux)

2012-05-10 Thread Newmedia
Self-conscious-artists-everywhere: By now, Lascaux has grown principally into a massive conservation/preservation industry mobilizing vast resources and hundreds of experts, many more than those actually concerned with its artistic content. Lascaux was NOT meant to be art! These are

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12 (Lascaux)

2012-05-10 Thread John Young
Religion is no more credible than art, to describe Lascaux, perhaps much less so due to its hyper-explanatory application to cultures (also an aggregatingly suspect term) from a polished view, to gloss raw material with a narrative rationale likely to appeal to consumers, or best, to funders of

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-09 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Tue, May 08, 2012 at 10:45:33PM +0100, Rob Myers wrote: On 05/08/2012 05:52 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote: The curiously absent question is why there should be social media in the first place, and 'media' in general. Lascaux. Notice that memes and image macros is a regression to pictorial

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-09 Thread William Waites
For what it's worth, the *original* Internet (okay, ARPANET) was quite centralized and, in fact, had surveillance (albeit of a very small group of researchers who had grown reluctant to travel to brain-storm) as (one of) its primary goals. This is a strange thing to say. Centralised in

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-09 Thread John Hopkins
Interesting question William -- So, does capitalism still have a broad social *purpose* once a significant level of industrialization has already been achieved? I have a Harris tweed jacket that I like very much and wear almost every day. I like to take the train. Did the history that

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12 (Lascaux)

2012-05-09 Thread Patrice Riemens
Lascaux is far from being low cost/free and with global reach, which I had in mind. Show me someone who contributes to 'social media' today with an eye on recognition 10,000 years from now. Which is what transpired in Lascaux - the style did not change for thousands of years, and very few

nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-08 Thread Dmytri Kleiner
Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12 I gave a talk with Jacob Applebaum at last week's Re:publica conference in Berlin. It seems it had fallen to us to break a little bad news. Here it is. - We are not progressing from a primitive era of centralized social media to an emerging era of

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-08 Thread Jaromil
dear Dmytri, On Tue, 08 May 2012, Dmytri Kleiner wrote: In the meantime, we have many clever and dedicated people contributing to inventing alternative platforms, and these platforms can be very important and worthwhile for the minority that will ever use them, but we do not have the social

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-08 Thread Newmedia
Dmytri: Eliminating privilege is a political struggle, not a technical one. Ahah -- therein lies the conundrum. Are you sure that you can defend this, apparently controversial, priority scheme? Where does one's politics come from? In particular, what might *cause* an anti-privilege

Re: nettime Privacy, Moglen, @ioerror, #rp12

2012-05-08 Thread Nick
Thanks for that Dmytri. I find the way Jake Appelbaum frames these issues very accessible and clarifying for my own thinking, and what you wrote here continued to do that for me. Jaromil, can you add to what you're writing here? I feel that I could learn a lot from you, but am missing enough