I placed this question earlier and could not arrive at a satisfying answer so with the liquid nature of this list I decided to try again. Here goes. For some reason (in other words I don't really want to waste bandwidth talking about it) Xfce is not on my kdm menu at the start of an xsession. I do boot directly to runlevel 5 or 6 (xdm or kdm). I have installed, by rpm, Xfce window manager. I can add it to the menu using the KDE Control Center however this will not start xfce but instead falls back to the "failsafe" window manager in the xinit file ( which in my case is fwm or something like that). In what file do I need to put a Xfce entry and how do I write that entry so that kdm can start Xfce when I click on it ? (And this is the question...........) Thanks and much appreciation for your time and efforts in helping this less than guru-level Mandrake user. Clif Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -------------------- The "Sig" file is having a bad day. --------------------