On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:18, civileme wrote:
> Keep Mandrake as is : 20
>
> Add a "simple" option to install: 13 of whom 9 recommended a system
I guess it doesn't hurt to have a "simple" option, as long as nothing else
changes. As a new user gets more experienced, they can make choices for
themselves. I have made the below recommendations based on what I believe a
newbie should begin with, and these should be included in the "simple
install".
> KDE: 3 WindowMaker with OpenOffice: 1 FVWM with vi: 1 Sawfish with
> SIAG: 1 Gnome with Gnome-apps and Netscape: 1 Helix-Code Gnome (Ximian
> Gnome): 1 Blackbox with both KDE and Gnome apps: 1
While I myself prefer GNOME, I think KDE is the best default desktop choice,
as long as it is just as easy to choose something else. GNOME (preferably
Ximian GNOME) should be included as well, so it can be chosen if the user
wants and so the many GTK and GNOME apps can be run. XFce wouldn't be a bad
choice either, particularly since it is small yet very functional. I have
said it before (on the newbie list), and I'll say it again, I really like the
menudrake system of uniform menus across desktop environments. This should be
built upon in the future.
> Losers: NO VOTES or less
>
> Mozilla
As pathetic as it is, we need Mozilla. Its cross-platform nature makes
migration from Windos and the Mac easier. Also, it means that HTML pages
rendered in Windos/Mac can look exactly the same in Linux. If Mozilla is
being included, perhaps something lighter that uses Gekko (e.g. Galeon and/or
SkipStone) should be too.
> Cooledit
> Kedit (KDE users wanted KWrite)
I quite like Kedit. It is small and fast, a real boon for slower systems. I
usually bring up a text editor for jotting quick notes. I really get
irritated when I have to wait for more than a second or two for the programme
to load. Windos Notepad is good because it is small and very fast (note: this
is not an endorsement of M$). We need something similar for Linux. If a user
really needs more sophistication, then they can bring up KWrite or KWord.
> Joe (One negative vote)
Mandrake badly needs a default console text editor that anyone can use. I
could never figure out VIM, and after some experimentation I finally settled
on Jed. Joe claims to be user-friendly, but I could never get the hang of it
(although I admit I never read any of the documentation). I found Jed to be
highly intuitive, very much like the MS-DOS Edit which I used to use.
> E
E is a great environment, and it really showcases how lovely the Linux
desktop can look, particularly in comparison to Windos. I think it should be
included.
> emacs(One negative vote)
Too powerful and complex for a newbie.
> nist (What-we-gonna-do-for-a-DVD-Player?)
Yes, we need a DVD player. Mandrake needs a more centralised media player
(perhaps XMMP?). While I don't mind having several different players for
different things, this could easily confuse newbies who have grown accustomed
to programmes like Windows Media Player. Also, Mandrake needs better support
for playing AVI, ASF and DivX movie files. To get these files working in
mdk7.2, I had to compile the latest version of avifile myself. The Mandrake
version of libaviplay combined with Xtheater did not work for me.
> IceWM(One negative vote)
A must. IceWM is a light, speedy WM that is also very functional from a
newbie perspective (more so than E or WindowMaker). We must not neglect those
with slower systems, since many people change over to Linux since they cannot
afford or don't want to buy a faster computer. A light WM will also showcase
Linux's speed. It's one thing getting Linux, but we need apps that grab
people so that they will contimue to use it. Blackbox is another good choice
here. It's not as user-friendly as IceWM, but it's very fast.
> gtoaster
> xcdroast
Gtoaster, X-CD-Roast and Gnome-Toaster are essential for CD burning. They all
have their own strengths and weaknesses. I use all three, since they all
complement each other very well.
> KVirc
An IRC client is mandatory, since IRC is a great way for a newbie to get
help. I prefer Xchat to KVirc, though. It would also be good to include
Mozilla's IRC client. A newsreader like Pan could be useful, too.
> Licq
> gAIM
We need a client for at least ICQ and AIM. Licq and GnomeICU are great for
ICQ, with the former more suited to KDE and the latter to GNOME. While I
haven't tried EveryBuddy, I have heard good things about it. A unified IM
client would be great, as long as all features were supported.
> spruce
> elm
> mutt
> biff
For newbies, Kmail currently is the best, especially since it is integrated
with Konqueror. Evolution should be great when it comes out, particularly for
newbies since it looks like M$ Outlook. Mozilla's mail client is good because
of its use of Gekko and is cross-platform.
> About 1000 others
A downloader like Downloader for X (my favourite) and/or GTM should be
included, since browsers (Konqueror included) have pathetic downloaders. An
FTP client, like gFTP, should also be included. File sharing protocols should
be supported. Gnapster or Knapster can be used for the Napster protocol,
Fidelio (a *very* good app) for Hotline (GtkHx isn't bad either, but nowhere
near as good as Fidelio), and the Freenet client for Freenet. A GNUtella
client should be included, but I have yet to find a good graphical one for
Linux. Gtk-Gnutella is far too buggy for normal use (but is good otherwise),
and it looks as if it is not being developed any more (or very slowly...). A
good image previewer (like GQview), a graphical archive manager (like LnxZip)
and XMMS are necessary.
> Was I clueless in asking this? Is it that there is NO system ideal for ANY
> linux user? Could it be that most users explore and settle on _more_ than
> one app for a particular purpose? I know I am like that, but I figured I
> was weird.
Well I hope you're not weird, because that'd make me weird too! For the
"simple install", however, we should only permit this if there is a real need
(e.g. two programmes take different approaches at doing the same thing, or
they have different features).
> I use SIAG and Open Office and KOffice as it suits me, jumping
> to emacs for coding and LyX for long documents. I us joe or pico for quick
> edits and fire up cooledit when I need to do a few repetitive edits(make it
> more than a few and a 10-line Python program is filtering and mapping
> instead). I run a bash command line and have never had a need to use
> another shell, though a few times I have been tempted to log into tcsh or
> zsh.
OpenOffice is a must. It would also be nice to have Corel WordPerfect (the
free version), since it is a direct port of the Windos version and has
support for M$-Word files (as does OpenOffice). I know it is closed source,
but so is Netscape 4.x (a must for a newbie, since many HTML pages are built
for it, and are not standards-compliant), and I believe it is just as useful.
RealPlayer would also be in the same category. SIAG and Klyx would be useful,
too. All of KOffice (KWord, KSpread, etc.) and all of GNOME Office (AbiWord,
GNUmeric, GNUcash, The GIMP, etc.) are essential.
> Well, I said I'd collect answers for 2 weeks. 10 days remain.
>
> Civileme
I know I have suggested many programmes, which would obviously take up a
considerable amount of space, but I believe that many of these are mandatory.
Linux apps are far more memory and space efficient than Windos ones, and I
think users can learn to appreciate that if we make it clear to them.
Another idea: instead of choosing from a thousand or so packages, or just one
"simple install" option, newbies using the "simple install" can choose from a
much smaller selection of packages (like the ones I have mentioned above).
Detailed explanations (not just one-liners) and maybe even screenshots should
be given for each choice. Decisions on more mundane things like which
libraries to install can be made up automatically for the user.
Anyway, that's my four cents (it's a bit more than two, don't you think :-) )
--
Sridhar Dhanapalan.
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