Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 4:19 AM Ilhan Polat wrote: > I've finally gone through the old discussion and finally got the > counter-argument in one of the Dag Sverre's replies > http://numpy-discussion.10968.n7.nabble.com/add-H-attribute-tp34474p34668.html > > TL; DR > > I disagree with [...adding th

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Ilhan Polat
I've finally gone through the old discussion and finally got the counter-argument in one of the Dag Sverre's replies http://numpy-discussion.10968.n7.nabble.com/add-H-attribute-tp34474p34668.html TL; DR I disagree with [...adding the .H attribute...] being forward looking, as > it explicitly crea

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Charles R Harris
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 2:18 PM Ralf Gommers wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:04 PM Kirill Balunov > wrote: > >> Only concerns #4 from Ilhan's list. >> >> ср, 26 июн. 2019 г. в 00:01, Ralf Gommers : >> >>> >>> [] >>> >>> Perhaps not full consensus between the many people with differen

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 11:24 PM Marten van Kerkwijk < m.h.vankerkw...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ralf, > > I realize you feel strongly that this whole thread is rehashing history, > The .H part was. But Cameron volunteered to work on a solution that satisfies all concerns. but I think it is worth p

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Wed, 2019-06-26 at 17:22 -0400, Marten van Kerkwijk wrote: > Hi Ralf, > > I realize you feel strongly that this whole thread is rehashing > history, but I think it is worth pointing out that many seem to > consider that the criterion for allowing backward incompatible > changes, i.e., that "exi

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Marten van Kerkwijk
Hi Ralf, I realize you feel strongly that this whole thread is rehashing history, but I think it is worth pointing out that many seem to consider that the criterion for allowing backward incompatible changes, i.e., that "existing code is buggy or is consistently confusing many users", is actually

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:24 PM Marten van Kerkwijk < m.h.vankerkw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The main motivation for the @ PEP was actually to be able to get rid of >> objects like np.matrix and scipy.sparse matrices that redefine the meaning >> of the * operator. Quote: "This PEP proposes the min

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Marten van Kerkwijk
> The main motivation for the @ PEP was actually to be able to get rid of > objects like np.matrix and scipy.sparse matrices that redefine the meaning > of the * operator. Quote: "This PEP proposes the minimum effective change > to Python syntax that will allow us to drain this swamp [meaning np.ma

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:04 PM Kirill Balunov wrote: > Only concerns #4 from Ilhan's list. > > ср, 26 июн. 2019 г. в 00:01, Ralf Gommers : > >> >> [] >> >> Perhaps not full consensus between the many people with different >> opinions and interests. But for the first one, arr.T change: it's

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Kirill Balunov
Only concerns #4 from Ilhan's list. ср, 26 июн. 2019 г. в 00:01, Ralf Gommers : > > [] > > Perhaps not full consensus between the many people with different opinions > and interests. But for the first one, arr.T change: it's clear that this > won't happen. > To begin with, I must admit that

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 6:32 PM Cameron Blocker wrote: > A previous discussion of adding a .H operator on the mailing list can be > found here: > http://numpy-discussion.10968.n7.nabble.com/add-H-attribute-td34474.html > that thread refers to an earlier discussion at > http://thread.gmane.org/gma

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Cameron Blocker
A previous discussion of adding a .H operator on the mailing list can be found here: http://numpy-discussion.10968.n7.nabble.com/add-H-attribute-td34474.html that thread refers to an earlier discussion at http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.numeric.general/6637 but that link was broken for me

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Andras Deak
Dear Ilhan, Thanks for writing these up. I feel that from a usability standpoint most people would support #3 (.H/.mH), especially considering Marten's very good argument about @. Having to wrap your transposed matrices in function calls half defeats the purpose of being able to write stacked matr

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Syntax Improvement for Array Transpose

2019-06-26 Thread Ilhan Polat
Maybe a bit of a grouping would help, because I am also losing track here. Let's see if I could manage to get something sensible because, just like Marten mentioned, I am confusing myself even when I am thinking about this 1- Transpose operation on 1D arrays: This is a well-known confusion poi