Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Sorry, but the argument against allowing scripters to find out why an error was thrown is nonsensical and is the sort of irrational "security by obscurity" policy that ANYONE with IT security experience knows is fallacious. But i guess it is to be expected when we have OS devs who turn off all htt

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

On October 18, 2019 at 11:08:59 AM, Kevin Cozens (ke...@ve3syb.ca) wrote: On 2019-10-18 11:15 a.m., Cinder Roxley wrote: > Cool, good place for an attack vector then. > >> On October 18, 2019 at 10:12:36 AM, Kevin Cozens (ke...@ve3syb.ca) wrote: >> Errors should be ignored while inside the error

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

On 2019-10-18 11:15 a.m., Cinder Roxley wrote: Cool, good place for an attack vector then. On October 18, 2019 at 10:12:36 AM, Kevin Cozens (ke...@ve3syb.ca) wrote: Errors should be ignored while inside the error handler. You don't want an error inside the error handler calling the error hand

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Cool, good place for an attack vector then. On October 18, 2019 at 10:12:36 AM, Kevin Cozens (ke...@ve3syb.ca) wrote: On 2019-10-17 10:52 a.m., Cinder Roxley wrote: > What do you imagine will happen if an error is raised inside of the OnErr > state? Errors should be ignored while inside the err

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

On 2019-10-17 10:52 a.m., Cinder Roxley wrote: What do you imagine will happen if an error is raised inside of the OnErr state? Errors should be ignored while inside the error handler. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that https://www.patre

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 05:09, Mike Lorrey wrote: > Mel mentioned that the threat warnings were created to protect against a > griefer threat that never materialized. I think it would be more accurate to say that it hasn't materialised yet. Just because OpenSimulator grids aren't overrun by grie

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

The threat levels are obsolete and they have been superseded by the Allow_= lines in the osslEnable.ini initialization file. Every region reads a copy of this file when it boots. If there is an Allow_...= line for a function, that can allow region owners, estate managers, gods, parcel owners, s

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Been lurking for quite a while, and I have to ask, Mel mentioned that the threat warnings were created to protect against a griefer threat that never materialized. If the perceived threat never happened, why are we keeping the threat levels at all? Keeping them is the same sort of illogic for ke

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

In SL we used to set up error event handlers with a listener on DEBUG_CHANNEL. Errors will still show in red on the script debug window but you're script will be able to be aware of the error(s). I don't recall if I've ever tried it on OpenSImulator but I'd be surprised if it didn't work there also

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

I agree that many functions are dangerous, and some grid owners may shoot themselves in the foot by enabling them. But I am talking about writing scripts that behave in a professional way, so I can hand them out for lots of people to use. If I wrote a phone app that popped up internal error mes

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

> On 17 Oct 2019, at 17:39, dz wrote: > > The suggestion was to add a default OnErr state to the script engine so > that it would provide the desired functionality to all programs, > > This would mean that no additional code would be needed in any program to get > the default "spam to me

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Cinder I wasn't offering a solution, I was offering a suggestion, Haravikk.. The suggestion was to add a default OnErr state to the script engine so that it would provide the desired functionality to all programs, not just those that used ossl calls. This would mean that no additiona

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

> On 17 Oct 2019, at 16:15, dz wrote: > > Haravikk.. > In my experience writing scripts that use OSSL functions ( NPC scripts > mostly), the possibility of integrating a "default" event handler is > virtually zero. > You have to remember "normal" processing described by the O.P is >

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

On October 17, 2019 at 10:16:11 AM, dz (d...@bitzend.net) wrote: Cinder.. Hadn't gone there it could be (inifinetly) problematic... Seems like that hole is much smaller than all the other "its ok to fail silently ..forever" features in the script engine. An incomplete solution is worse than n

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Cinder.. Hadn't gone there it could be (inifinetly) problematic... Seems like that hole is much smaller than all the other "its ok to fail silently ..forever" features in the script engine. Haravikk.. In my experience writing scripts that use OSSL functions ( NPC scripts mostly), the p

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Well lets try put some perspective on this... The problem is not how hard it is to detected and handle disabled functions The problem is WHY are you using them !!! See OSSL got a lot a functions in time and for very different reasons. Many are there because they are just funny/useful on very s

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

What do you imagine will happen if an error is raised inside of the OnErr state? On October 17, 2019 at 9:17:40 AM, dz (d...@bitzend.net) wrote: While I agree that the on-error (event) might be the more elegant solution, it suffers the downside of requiring significant additional coding in the L

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

> On 17 Oct 2019, at 01:55, dz wrote: > You miss the point... Sorry yeah, I think I misunderstood, thought we were back on return values. In that case though I think I agree with Kevin and Dahlia that it might be better to have an error() event, rather than a special state. With an error()

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

While I agree that the on-error (event) might be the more elegant solution, it suffers the downside of requiring significant additional coding in the LSL script. It is true that state changes are disruptive, but we are comparing it to a solution ( NOW) where the program fails and spams every

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Perhaps you mean an on_error() event instead of a state change? An unexpected state change can be difficult to recover from (closing listeners. timers, and whatnot, and not knowing which state was active before the change occurred). On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 5:55 PM dz wrote: > You miss the point.

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

You miss the point... LSL programs function in States... most folks only ever see the DEFAULT state label and ignore it, What I am suggesting is that the new LSL programs Include a ONERR State that would be invoked in the event of a OSSL call failure This allows the LSL program

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

> On 16 Oct 2019, at 16:45, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > On 2019-10-14 11:53 p.m., dz wrote: >> Why don't you just have the default action of the " failed " call invoke a >> standard user defined error state. > > Interesting idea. One aspect of that is that it should be able to know which > sta

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

On 2019-10-14 11:53 p.m., dz wrote: Why don't you just have the default action of the " failed " call invoke a standard user defined error state. Interesting idea. One aspect of that is that it should be able to know which state the script was in prior to an error being triggered as it might

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

 Great  work again   Ubit,  many  thanks: >>>   add OSSL option PermissionErrortoOwner (true or false). if true ossl >>> functions permission errors will only be sent to prim owner, default false: send all around ... now  please try to see if you can  get the  "blow job"  to fire up  opensim

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Erm. The option to COMPLETELY disable OSSL needs to be preserved. It can't be that there is no option available that doesn't allow opensim to be reduced to LSL ONLY Just saying' - Melanie On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 23:17:42 + Leal Duarte wrote Threat

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Threat Level is a default fallback.. if a valid line Allow_funcName in present on the file it is ignored. That is all the needed flexibility (we ship with all present) So we will not make things even more complex than they are. meanwhile:    add OSSL option PermissionErrortoOwner (true or fa

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Asset bloat from normal use is quite manageable in today's computing landscape, artificially and maliciously introduced asset bloat, less so. However, I was only ranting there :) My first three bullet points are really what I was getting at: - Retaining enable/disable for the functions that now h

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Get Serious PLEASE Melanie sez... "*Another is osMakeNotecard, with which a script in a tight loop can create 10s of thousands of notecard assets.*..." UMMM.. lets see... I'll have to agree that is ONE possible disadvantage... But let's look at a bigger picture.. Anyone with rez rights c

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Just to clarify that blow job refers to early Bronze age, where some people job was to blow into fire so to it could reach the temperature to melt cooper ore and other elements. ;) Ubit On 15-Oct-19 14:49, Melanie wrote: The important things here are: - functions that can now be disabled s

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

The important things here are: - functions that can now be disabled should retain that option - the defaults we have should be preserved, any sensible change to defaults need to allow, not restrict, in order to not break things when people load oars - The extra file data should be processed effic

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

> On 15 Oct 2019, at 00:02, Leal Duarte wrote: > > yoption trycatch; > > default > { > state_entry() > { > llSay(0, "Script running"); > } > touch_start(integer nn) > { > try > { > osSetTerrainHeight(120, 100, 30); > llSay(0,

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

The original question was about error spamming in the following terms when an OSL function fails. " SPAMMING EVERY AVATAR IN THE REGION once. Which is still annoying." And the idea original suggested is to implement a  OSL function to  test ahead the function to be used without user knowing whi

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

As you noticed with the Linda Kelley scripts, the reason why the LSL function sleeps have been kept in the code is for compatibility with scripts that counted on those delays. So they have to stay in. I believe there are a bunch of OSSL functions that are simply duplication of LSL functions wit

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Amen ONEFANG to SILLY threat level assignments by devs... I have always felt like my OSSL hammer was made of styrofoam because the useful functions were labelled SEVERE threats. IMO this fascination some devs have with "griefing potential" is patently absurd. There are ALWAYS ill

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Instead of modifying the script engine and complicating EVERY script that wants to use OSSL... Why don't you just have the default action of the " failed " call invoke a standard user defined error state. I know 90% of the LSL scripting public believes there is only a DEFAULT state in an

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 00:02:41 +0100 Leal Duarte wrote: > About adding even more code on top of this, just can say that i would > (will?) remove all this threat mess once a cleaner way (and a lot > lighter) is found to keep the needed level of protection.. I'm happy that people are now seeing

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Yeah, but there is a function in the code to do that for you. And it also does lots of error checking. Best to use what is there and not duplicate the effort. The big problem is that if there is no "Allow_" line in the ini files, the code falls back on the threat level setting, which is hard-co

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

On 2019-10-14 5:04 p.m., Melanie wrote: The internal code is already able to determine permissions from a string version if the osFunction name, exposing that would be quite trivial. The way I would approach the problem is to make a string by append "Allow_" to the start of a function name and

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Yengine currently is to be used as Xengine replacement and compatible with it as much as possible The revision of its extra options is still a low priority, at least until it is assumed as the main engine, as Melanie said. if you feel suicidal and want to just test: ... yoption trycatch; d

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

I have already written an OSSL function to expose that internal code that tests permissions from a string version of function name. It is unsatisfactory because it cannot tell which functions will fail because of the threat level. It can only tell you if it passes the "Allow_" test from the ini

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

The original intention of the LSL permissions system was to make a script fail catastrophically. Subsequent edits have made it so that using a not allowed function would not crash and stop the script, which was the original, and back then intended, behavior. The history of this is that it shoul

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

> On 14 Oct 2019, at 15:12, dz wrote: > > just an observation from a casual observer with decades of software > design experience... > > Wouldn't it be more productive to wrap all OSSL function calls in error > handling so the response is "correct" regardless of the permissions? > Adding

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

just an observation from a casual observer with decades of software design experience... Wouldn't it be more productive to wrap all OSSL function calls in error handling so the response is "correct" regardless of the permissions? Adding another seperate function that will ALWAYS need to

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Yeah, there is an example of that crash and recover trick at http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Threat_level, at the bottom of the page. I have done that and it works after SPAMMING EVERY AVATAR IN THE REGION once. Which is still annoying. On 10/13/2019 4:25 AM, Michel Beauregard wrote: Its a goo

Re: [Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

Its a good idea to have a function that test if a osl function is available to a owner in a specific location. For now there is a way to test for osl function scriptwise. A failing osl function cause a crash of the event calling it.  So what I do is on state_entry I call a timer with a fake ca

[Opensim-dev] Test before you call OSSL function

I am trying to write a new OSSL function osPermissionToCall(string function_name) I want to be able to call this function before calling other OSSL functions to find out if I can call them. Then I can give meaningful error messages to the users of a script, or use alternate functions. Without