Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 03:54:37PM -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 08/12/2014 03:40 PM, Kashyap Chamarthy wrote: [. . .] (Sorry for the late response, was off for a week.) > > So, effectively, you're trying to add a minimal Fedora image w/ > > virt-preview repo (as part of some post-install ki

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > On Mon, 2014-08-11 at 15:25 -0700, Joe Gordon wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Mark McLoughlin > > wrote: > > On Fri, 2014-08-08 at 09:06 -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > > > On 08/07/2014 08:06 PM,

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/12/2014 03:40 PM, Kashyap Chamarthy wrote: > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 08:05:26AM -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: >> On 08/11/2014 07:58 AM, Russell Bryant wrote: >>> On 08/11/2014 05:53 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: There is work to add support for this in devestack already which I pref

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 08:05:26AM -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 08/11/2014 07:58 AM, Russell Bryant wrote: > > On 08/11/2014 05:53 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > >> There is work to add support for this in devestack already which I > >> prefer since it makes it easy for developers to get an e

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/12/2014 05:54 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: >> I am less concerned about the contents of this patch, and more concerned >> with how such a big de facto change in nova policy (we accept untested code >> sometimes) without any discussion or consensus. In your comment on the >> revert [2], you s

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 03:25:39PM -0700, Joe Gordon wrote: > I am not sure if I follow. The gate issue with live snapshots has been > worked around by turning it off [0], so presumably this patch is forward > facing. I fail to see how this patch is needed to help the gate in the > future. Wouldn

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Mon, 2014-08-11 at 15:25 -0700, Joe Gordon wrote: > > > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Mark McLoughlin > wrote: > On Fri, 2014-08-08 at 09:06 -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > > On 08/07/2014 08:06 PM, Michael Still wrote: > > > It seems to me that the tension here

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > On Fri, 2014-08-08 at 09:06 -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > > On 08/07/2014 08:06 PM, Michael Still wrote: > > > It seems to me that the tension here is that there are groups who > > > would really like to use features in newer libvirts th

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 2014-08-11 14:56:27 +0100 (+0100), Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > If there are specific things we could do to libvirt.org / qemu.org > download sites, to make mirroring easier or more reliable for > OpenStack, we could certainly explore options there, since we know > the right people involved in bo

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 01:45:56PM +, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > On 2014-08-11 08:07:02 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: > > There's a pypi mirror at least. I'm not sure about mirroring > > other things. > > Right, that's a specific solution for mirroring the pypi.python.org > cheeseshop. We

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 2014-08-11 08:07:02 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: > There's a pypi mirror at least. I'm not sure about mirroring > other things. Right, that's a specific solution for mirroring the pypi.python.org cheeseshop. We've got our (Infra) sights set on mirroring Ubuntu and CentOS package reposi

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/11/2014 09:17 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > On 2014-08-11 08:04:34 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: >> Dang, I'd love to see those numbers. :-) > > Me too. Now that I'm not travelling I'll see if I can find out what > he meant by that. > >> Understood. Some questions ... is building an

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 2014-08-11 08:04:34 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: > Dang, I'd love to see those numbers. :-) Me too. Now that I'm not travelling I'll see if I can find out what he meant by that. > Understood. Some questions ... is building an image that has libvirt > and qemu pre-installed from sourc

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/11/2014 08:01 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 07:58:41AM -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: >> On 08/11/2014 05:53 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: >>> There is work to add support for this in devestack already which I >>> prefer since it makes it easy for developers to get an

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/11/2014 07:58 AM, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 08/11/2014 05:53 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: >> There is work to add support for this in devestack already which I >> prefer since it makes it easy for developers to get an environment >> which matches the build system: >> >> https://review.ope

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/09/2014 12:33 PM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > On 2014-08-08 09:06:29 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: > [...] >> We've seen several times that building and maintaining 3rd party >> CI is a *lot* of work. > > Building and maintaining *any* CI is a *lot* of work, not the least > of which is th

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 07:58:41AM -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 08/11/2014 05:53 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > > There is work to add support for this in devestack already which I > > prefer since it makes it easy for developers to get an environment > > which matches the build system: > >

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/11/2014 05:53 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > There is work to add support for this in devestack already which I > prefer since it makes it easy for developers to get an environment > which matches the build system: > > https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108714/ Ah, cool. Devstack is indee

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

In the past there was smokestack that used a fedora version of libvirt. Any idea what happened to that? On 8/11/14, 12:53 PM, "Daniel P. Berrange" wrote: >On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 09:06:29AM -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: >> On 08/07/2014 08:06 PM, Michael Still wrote: >> > It seems to me that the

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 09:06:29AM -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 08/07/2014 08:06 PM, Michael Still wrote: > > It seems to me that the tension here is that there are groups who > > would really like to use features in newer libvirts that we don't CI > > on in the gate. Is it naive to think that

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 08:57:31AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: > On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 2:33 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > > On 2014-08-08 09:06:29 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: > > [...] > >> We've seen several times that building and maintaining 3rd party > >> CI is a *lot* of work. > > >

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Fri, 2014-08-08 at 09:06 -0400, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 08/07/2014 08:06 PM, Michael Still wrote: > > It seems to me that the tension here is that there are groups who > > would really like to use features in newer libvirts that we don't CI > > on in the gate. Is it naive to think that a poss

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 2:33 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > On 2014-08-08 09:06:29 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: > [...] >> We've seen several times that building and maintaining 3rd party >> CI is a *lot* of work. > > Building and maintaining *any* CI is a *lot* of work, not the least > of wh

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 2014-08-08 09:06:29 -0400 (-0400), Russell Bryant wrote: [...] > We've seen several times that building and maintaining 3rd party > CI is a *lot* of work. Building and maintaining *any* CI is a *lot* of work, not the least of which is the official OpenStack project CI (I believe Monty mentioned

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/08/2014 09:06 AM, Russell Bryant wrote: >> - instead implement a third party CI with the latest available >> libvirt release [1] > > As for the general idea of doing CI, absolutely. That was discussed > earlier in the thread, though nobody has picked up the ball yet. I can > work on it, t

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 8 August 2014 15:27, Russell Bryant wrote: > It sounds like what you're working on is a separate thing. > Roger. Just wanted to check if our work could have some broader utility, but as you say we do have a specific use case in mind. Cheers! -Luke

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/08/2014 01:46 AM, Luke Gorrie wrote: > On 8 August 2014 02:06, Michael Still > wrote: > > 1: I think that ultimately should live in infra as part of check, but > I'd be ok with it starting as a third party if that delivers us > something faster. I'd be

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 08/07/2014 08:06 PM, Michael Still wrote: > It seems to me that the tension here is that there are groups who > would really like to use features in newer libvirts that we don't CI > on in the gate. Is it naive to think that a possible solution here is > to do the following: > > - revert the l

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 8 August 2014 02:06, Michael Still wrote: > 1: I think that ultimately should live in infra as part of check, but > I'd be ok with it starting as a third party if that delivers us > something faster. I'd be happy enough to donate resources to get that > going if we decide to go with this plan.

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

It seems to me that the tension here is that there are groups who would really like to use features in newer libvirts that we don't CI on in the gate. Is it naive to think that a possible solution here is to do the following: - revert the libvirt version_cap flag - instead implement a third part

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 7/18/2014 2:55 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:13:13PM -0700, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, Russell Bryant wrote: On 07/17/2014 02:31 PM, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: It kind of helps. It's still implicit in that you need to look at what features are e

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:13:13PM -0700, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: > On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, Russell Bryant wrote: > > On 07/17/2014 02:31 PM, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: > > > It kind of helps. It's still implicit in that you need to look at what > > > features are enabled at what version and determine

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 07/17/2014 02:31 PM, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: > > It kind of helps. It's still implicit in that you need to look at what > > features are enabled at what version and determine if it is being > > tested. > > > > But the behavior is still broken since

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/17/2014 02:31 PM, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: > On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 09:44:55AM -0700, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: >>> So that means the libvirt driver will be a mix of tested and untested >>> features, but only the tested code paths will be enab

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 09:44:55AM -0700, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: > > So that means the libvirt driver will be a mix of tested and untested > > features, but only the tested code paths will be enabled by default? > > > > The gate not only tests co

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/17/2014 11:40 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 09:44:55AM -0700, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014, Mark McLoughlin wrote: >>> No, there are features or code paths of the libvirt 1.2.5+ driver that >>> aren't as well tested as the "class A" designation im

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

Excerpts from Chris Friesen's message of 2014-07-16 11:38:44 -0700: > On 07/16/2014 11:59 AM, Monty Taylor wrote: > > On 07/16/2014 07:27 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: > > >> This is a really good point. As someone who has to deal with packaging > >> issues constantly, it is odd to me that libvirt

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 8:13 AM, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > On Thu, 2014-07-17 at 09:58 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 08:46:12AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: > > > Top posting to the original email because I want this to stand out... > > > > > > I've added this to the

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 09:44:55AM -0700, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > > No, there are features or code paths of the libvirt 1.2.5+ driver that > > aren't as well tested as the "class A" designation implies. And we have > > a proposal to make sure these

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/16/2014 08:15 PM, Eric Windisch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Roman Bogorodskiy > mailto:rbogorods...@mirantis.com>> wrote: > > Eric Windisch wrote: > > > This thread highlights more deeply the problems for the FreeBSD folks. > > First, I still disagree w

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/17/2014 02:13 PM, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > On Thu, 2014-07-17 at 09:58 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 08:46:12AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: >>> Top posting to the original email because I want this to stand out... >>> >>> I've added this to the agenda for the nov

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, 2014-07-17 at 09:58 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 08:46:12AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: > > Top posting to the original email because I want this to stand out... > > > > I've added this to the agenda for the nova mid cycle meetup, I think > > most of the contr

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 10:59:27AM +0200, Sean Dague wrote: > We've talked about the 'CI the world plan' for a while, which this would > be part of. That's a ton of work that no one is signed up for. > > But more importantly setting up and running the tests is < 10% of the > time cost. Triage and

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/16/2014 05:08 PM, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > On Wed, 2014-07-16 at 16:15 +0200, Sean Dague wrote: > .. >> Based on these experiences, libvirt version differences seem to be as >> substantial as major hypervisor differences. There is a proposal here - >> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103923/

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 12:38:44PM -0600, Chris Friesen wrote: > On 07/16/2014 11:59 AM, Monty Taylor wrote: > >On 07/16/2014 07:27 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: > > >>This is a really good point. As someone who has to deal with packaging > >>issues constantly, it is odd to me that libvirt is one

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/17/2014 12:45 AM, Michael Still wrote: > On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 3:27 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya > wrote: >> On Jul 16, 2014, at 8:28 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:> >>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 08:12:47AM -0700, Clark Boylan wrote: >>> I am worried that we would just regress to the current

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 08:46:12AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: > Top posting to the original email because I want this to stand out... > > I've added this to the agenda for the nova mid cycle meetup, I think > most of the contributors to this thread will be there. So, if we can > nail this down he

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

Top posting to the original email because I want this to stand out... I've added this to the agenda for the nova mid cycle meetup, I think most of the contributors to this thread will be there. So, if we can nail this down here then that's great, but if we think we'd be more productive in person c

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 3:27 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: > On Jul 16, 2014, at 8:28 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:> >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 08:12:47AM -0700, Clark Boylan wrote: >> >>> I am worried that we would just regress to the current process because >>> we have tried something similar t

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/16/2014 11:59 AM, Monty Taylor wrote: On 07/16/2014 07:27 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: This is a really good point. As someone who has to deal with packaging issues constantly, it is odd to me that libvirt is one of the few places where we depend on upstream packaging. We constantly pul

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On 07/16/2014 07:27 PM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote: > > On Jul 16, 2014, at 8:28 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 08:12:47AM -0700, Clark Boylan wrote: >> >>> I am worried that we would just regress to the current process because >>> we have tried something similar to thi

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Roman Bogorodskiy < rbogorods...@mirantis.com> wrote: > Eric Windisch wrote: > > > This thread highlights more deeply the problems for the FreeBSD folks. > > First, I still disagree with the recommendation that they contribute to > > libvirt. It's a classic exam

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Jul 16, 2014, at 8:28 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 08:12:47AM -0700, Clark Boylan wrote: > >> I am worried that we would just regress to the current process because >> we have tried something similar to this previously and were forced to >> regress to the current p

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

Eric Windisch wrote: > This thread highlights more deeply the problems for the FreeBSD folks. > First, I still disagree with the recommendation that they contribute to > libvirt. It's a classic example of creating two or more problems from one. > Once they have support in libvirt, how long befor

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > No, there are features or code paths of the libvirt 1.2.5+ driver that > aren't as well tested as the "class A" designation implies. And we have > a proposal to make sure these aren't used by default: > > https://review.openstack.org/107119 > > i.

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 04:15:40PM +0200, Sean Dague wrote: [. . .] > Anyway, discussion welcomed. My primary concern right now isn't actually > where we set the bar, but that we set the same bar for everyone. As someone who tries to test Nova w/ upstream libvirt/QEMU, couple of points why I dis

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 08:29:26AM -0700, Dan Smith wrote: > >> Based on these experiences, libvirt version differences seem to be as > >> substantial as major hypervisor differences. > > > > I think that is a pretty dubious conclusion to draw from just a > > couple of bugs. The reason they really

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Sean Dague wrote: > Recently the main gate updated from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04, and in doing > so we started executing the livesnapshot code in the nova libvirt > driver. Which fails about 20% of the time in the gate, as we're bringing > computes up and down while

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

>> Based on these experiences, libvirt version differences seem to be as >> substantial as major hypervisor differences. > > I think that is a pretty dubious conclusion to draw from just a > couple of bugs. The reason they really caused pain is that because > the CI test system was based on old ve

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 08:12:47AM -0700, Clark Boylan wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Daniel P. Berrange > wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 04:15:40PM +0200, Sean Dague wrote: > >> Recently the main gate updated from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04, and in doing > >> so we started executing th

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 04:15:40PM +0200, Sean Dague wrote: >> Recently the main gate updated from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04, and in doing >> so we started executing the livesnapshot code in the nova libvirt >> driver. Which fails about 20%

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, 2014-07-16 at 16:15 +0200, Sean Dague wrote: .. > Based on these experiences, libvirt version differences seem to be as > substantial as major hypervisor differences. There is a proposal here - > https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103923/ to hold newer versions of > libvirt to the same standa

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 04:15:40PM +0200, Sean Dague wrote: > Recently the main gate updated from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04, and in doing > so we started executing the livesnapshot code in the nova libvirt > driver. Which fails about 20% of the time in the gate, as we're bringing > computes up and down

[openstack-dev] [nova] fair standards for all hypervisor drivers

Recently the main gate updated from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04, and in doing so we started executing the livesnapshot code in the nova libvirt driver. Which fails about 20% of the time in the gate, as we're bringing computes up and down while doing a snapshot. Dan Berange did a bunch of debug on that an