Hello,
Am Freitag, 4. September 2020, 12:19:30 CEST schrieb ddemaio:
> On 9/4/20 12:05 AM, Vinzenz Vietzke wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, 3. September 2020, 21:41:47 schrieb Christian Boltz:
...
> >>>>> I always recognized news-o-o as some magazine where anything is
> >>>>> possible as long as it's somehow related to openSUSE.
> >>
> >> That sounds more like how I would describe planet.o.o.
> >> (Mostly - on planet.o.o we also get some off-topic posts from
> >> community members, and that's fine.)
> >
> > No. There's a fundamental difference: curation, or the level of it.
Well, I haven't seen too much curation on news.o.o, but that might be
because not too many people submitted non-news articles so far.
> > On planet- o-o I get content written by members. Most of the time
> > it's openSUSE related in a very loose way.
That might depend on your definition of "openSUSE related" and "loose",
but in general - yes, I know that planet.o.o doesn't have a strict
content policy (for good reasons).
> > On a magazine there are a few people getting content into a curation
> > queue like via email or pull request for their reviewing. Plus
> > these people try actively to generate content to the page. [1]
Yeah, I know the definition of a magazine. However, I don't see news.o.o
as one ;-)
[...]
> > news-o-o has no clear definition what it is. If it's strictly "news
> > from the openSUSE project" like in press releases then we need to
> > have a separate place for stuff like a report from a release party.
> > If it's not but more like an overall magazine then we need to make
> > sure the huge news don't get buried.
If you look at the existing content on news.o.o, then I'd say it's about
"news from the openSUSE project" - but not as strict as in "only press
releases" (for example, articles about release parties are also news).
OTOH I don't remember articles featuring a specific package (besides the
two in the last months).
And yes, AFAIK we don't have a formal definition of news.o.o written
down somewhere, that's why I'm describing it based on the existing
content. We've used it in this way since years, so - reality wins ;-)
As a sidenote - we also don't have formal definitions and policies in
several other areas, and nevertheless, things usually "just work"[tm]
:-)
...
> >> Also, articles featuring a specific package also feel off-topic for
> >> news.o.o [2] - in the recent case, I'd have expected the post in
> >> someone's blog and then on planet.o.o. Independent of the question
> >> in which repo this package lives.
> >
> > Again: missing definition of news-o-o.
> >
> > I might repeat myself, but the way Fedora is doing it is just great.
> > Good content, balanced between community news, announcements and
> > tutorials.
I just had a look at fedoramagazine.org - it's good as a magazine, but I
don't think that it fits the definition of "news".
We have other places for texts and howtos about specific packages, with
the wikis being the best ones IMHO. We already have some pages about
specific applications (in the main namespace), and we also have the SDB
namespace which might fit better for "how to do $task with $program".
"Advertising" these articles is an open question, but I'm sure there are
ways to make them visible.
> I looked at the Matomo out of curiosity to see the interest these type
> of articles generate. Both this and the previous one appear to
> generate a lot more interest than normal, so I believe we should
> offer some option here.
Can you please define "more interest than normal"? Which articles did
you look at for comparison? And what is "a lot more"?
(Maybe you can provide the numbers for the last 10 or 20 articles?)
> Maybe having articles featuring content like this isn't exactly what
> some project members want, but the numbers don't lie.
Hehe, you know the saying "don't trust statistics you didn't fake
yourself?" ;-)
For example, I'd guess that Matomo misses all the people who read
news.o.o via feedreader or via planet.o.o. And I'd also _guess_ that
this target group might find magazine-style articles less interesting.
> Building something new could work, but the existing structure is set
> up and brings in new readers to news.o.o., which might bring in new
> followers on social media, etc. I'm in favor of content like this
> posted on news.o.o. I know some aren't in favor of this and I don't
> agree with them on this topic.
Indeed, this is clearly a controversial topic.
> As long as there is a clear set of rules in the README.md and the
> author meets the criteria, I don't see a problem with it.
>
> The Criteria (meet two of the five rules)
>
> Criteria 1 - Author must provide a call to action for the community.
> I.E. - Asking for community help.
>
> Criteria 2 - Article is meant to increase awareness of a package/s
> with the intent to make it apart of the official repositories.
> Advertising home repositories is discouraged and may be subject to
> removal of the article. Any packages linked to home projects need to
s/removal of/not accepting/
> include a disclaimer regarding the absence of security as the
> packages are currently not official and have not gone through the
> legal and quality assurance processes.
I don't think Criteria 2 is a good idea - if someone needs help to get a
package in shape for the official distribution, the development
mailinglists (usually factory, unless we have a specific ML for that
area) are a much better place, and have a more fitting audience. Also,
MLs make it much easier to answer a call for help.
The same more or less also applies to Criteria 1, but it might depend a
bit on what the call for action asks for.
And regarding the disclaimer about home repo security - we'll get
articles that say "look, we are presenting this great package - but
don't install it because it's in a completely insecure repo".
Am I the only one who thinks that this will give a bad public impression
of (at least) the overall article?
> Criteria 3 - Article informs readers of the efforts of an open-source
> project/s and how they relate explicitly to the openSUSE Project, its
> community and users.
>
> Criteria 4 - Is an official package in the distribution, an official
> openSUSE distribution or a project within the openSUSE Project.
>
> Criteria 5 - Provides a "how to use" or "tutorial" about on an
> official package within the openSUSE distribution.
With the requirement to meet two of these five rules, I can imagine
several ways you wouldn't like to get quite useless articles to news.o.o
;-)
I'll simply dig out the example I already posted some days ago:
I recently asked one of the upstream AppArmor devs to adjust some
library paths in the Ubuntu Chromium profile so that they match the
openSUSE paths.
This clearly meets criteria 3 and 4, and would therefore qualify for a
news article ;-) And I could easily make it also match Criteria 1 by
adding "Please test the Chromium AppArmor profile and report any issues
you find."
I hope this explains why the Criterias need some ;-) improvement.
To sum it up:
- I'm not a fan of turning news.o.o into a magazine
- If you really want to do that, please ask a wider audience for their
opinion, for example on opensuse-project
- The Criteria will need quite some improvements to make them
troll-proof ;-)
Regards,
Christian Boltz
--
The users sending twice are much more nasty.
I guess you will not find a firmware update for them
[Eberhard Moenkeberg in opensuse]
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