Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-11 Thread Anothony Georgeo
Michael Holstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree that being behind someone else's firewall is a problem as the> user may not understand the implications of this and thus advertise an> impossible exit policy.Suggestion for the coders .. make the client test itself and adjust the exit policy on

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-11 Thread Michael Holstein
I agree that being behind someone else's firewall is a problem as the user may not understand the implications of this and thus advertise an impossible exit policy. Suggestion for the coders .. make the client test itself and adjust the exit policy on the fly.

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-11 Thread Jonathan D. Proulx
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 03:32:26PM +0200, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: :> Well, I know Roger, Nick, etc are against it but making Tor run as a :> server by default may be worth more consideration (I2P does this). : :What about people behind NAT/firewalls that they don't control? : :What about people w

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-11 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
> Well, I know Roger, Nick, etc are against it but making Tor run as a > server by default may be worth more consideration (I2P does this). What about people behind NAT/firewalls that they don't control? What about people with battery-powered devices? Juli

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Paul Syverson
On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 08:30:54PM -0700, Andrew Del Vecchio wrote: > > Was anyone on the original project full-on Navy, or was this entirely > contracted out? I'm not sure I understand the question. Onion Routing was originally invented and developed entirely by civilian (non-uniformed) employees

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Andrew Del Vecchio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Was anyone on the original project full-on Navy, or was this entirely contracted out? Paul Syverson wrote: > On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 06:34:45PM -0700, Andrew Del Vecchio wrote: > >> Tor was originally supported by the US Navy, but that is no >> longer

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Paul Syverson
On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 06:34:45PM -0700, Andrew Del Vecchio wrote: > > Tor was originally supported by the US Navy, but that is no longer the > case for whatever reason. Tor, as with the previous generations of Onion Routing, was designed by myself and others from NRL. It's the first system that

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Andrew Del Vecchio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tor was originally supported by the US Navy, but that is no longer the case for whatever reason. Perhaps this explains the lack of attack in the US. However, the European states obviously don't give a crap :| Tim McCormack wrote: > I'm new to the comm

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Tim McCormack
I'm new to the community, so I'm not very familiar with the history of gov't-Tor interactions (though I can take a guess at the general attitudes.) However, I recall reading that some gov't organizations use Tor for their own protection. Don't they have a vested interest in keeping it alive? I'm

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Andrew Del Vecchio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good ideas. I was thinking of something similar myself. Are there existing organizations like this in other countries, specifically Germany and France, where most of this BS seems to be coming from? If so, the most efficient thing to do would be to sim

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Andrew Del Vecchio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This may very well be true in general. However, consider these two important aspects: 1. Government=force, and if you can get away with shutting up your opponents AND stealing most of or everything they have, why not? For them, it kills two birds with

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread David Benfell
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:42:39 -0700, Anothony Georgeo wrote: > > My original point is still vaild though, a > class-action in multiple countries would be very > difficult if not impossible. Thus it seems it may be > necessary to make a different class-action in each > country due to each countries

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Matej Kovacic
Hi, "that more people get 'busted', therefore draining the fund even more." No, because when there will be one case when under some circumstances Tor operator will be freed, there will be no legal action againt other Tor operators anymore. But I see one big problem with EFF. EFF is an US-base

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Anothony Georgeo
--- Andrew Del Vecchio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The bottom line here is that if the self-proclaimed > "authorities" can't find/don't know you own anything > of value in the first place, they're much less likely > to seek you out as the next great "example" to be > held up and publically b

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Anothony Georgeo
--- glymr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Fast internet is starting to spread fast anyway, > with all this ADSL2 popping up. I believe speed in the Tor network is less dependend upon high speed connections than it is upon the Tor network itself...of course dial-up is another story... > ...I'm s

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread glymr
My point here, which seems to be lost on everyone, is that putting your neck out is a monetary (at least requires monetary) contribution. As for organising users together that is just a matter of good viral marketing. Fast internet is starting to spread fast anyway, with all this ADSL2 popping up.

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Andrew Del Vecchio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 There is some truth to this perhaps, but on the other hand, the more people participating, the more statistically likely it is that more people get 'busted', therefore draining the fund even more. Glymr, I think you've got some good analysis here, but

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Anothony Georgeo
glymr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: An amusing subtext in this is that issue of social reward which came upin discussions about how to encourage tor servers to appear. I'minclined to suggest that a firehose blasting would work better, find aneffective way to get more people to run tor nodes, and it go

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Andrew Del Vecchio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This may be a good idea to contemplate, Anthony. I know of many successful action organizations, including some I've worked for/with directly that had such set-ups. Does anyone here have legal knowledge specific to this realm of affairs? I myself am no

Re: Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread glymr
An amusing subtext in this is that issue of social reward which came up in discussions about how to encourage tor servers to appear. I'm inclined to suggest that a firehose blasting would work better, find an effective way to get more people to run tor nodes, and it goes from victimisation to class

Tor Defense Fund...an idea.

2006-09-10 Thread Anothony Georgeo
Hi,Tor server operators are more frequently subject to government action due to the fact they are running an exit or entry node.  IMO this will cause some operators to shutdown their nodes to avoid legal repercussions and/or the monetary damages that can be incurred (from fines or legal defense).I