Re: [OGD] Carson's Rant and Tom's Agreement (Peter O'Byrne)

Peter, I'm sorry. I can't answer for the third world countries and how they can or cannot do things. Apparently, though, CITES is so f_ed up they didn't consider that either. Most of what is expected is what can be expected to be available in developed countries. Thank you for pointing

[OGD] Carson's Rant - Response to O'Byrne Vol. 8, No. 181

In response to your questions: "1) How do you propose that the CITES guys differentiate between plants that have really been salvaged and plants that have suffered "gratuitous salvage" ?" CITES has a fairly straight-forward definition of "salvage." If this is followed, there is no problem, exc

[OGD] Canadian CITES Adminstration

Recently, a requested CITES permit for salvaged plants was refused by the Canadian CITES office because "we cannot allow you to profit from a plant that was once wild." Apparently, the Canadian CITES Administration is as arragent and stupid as those administering the US CITES. CITES was formed

[OGD] "Orchid Territory" by Mary Motes

If you haven't read Mary Motes book "Orchid Territory" you should. It's a "kick." You can find info on it on The Orchid Mall unClassified Ads page or on the Services, Supplies and Software page. Well worth the read and reasonable priced, too. Carson E. Whitlow Adel, IA __

[OGD] CITES not required for Appendix-1 Species

What the convention requires and what is required by the US Officials does not always match, in fact I can't say that CITES is applied uniformly throughout the US. Each country (and entry point) has its own little quirks and interpretations. As for Appendix 1 flasks, who on this list has impo

[OGD] V 7, #367, Conservation Efforts

Nicholas Plummer makes a valid point of the potential of relocating plants which are being destroyed by the bulldozer. Unfortunately, who is to do it? And can that many plants be reintroduced or moved to safe ground? When it can be done, it is done - as Tom has relayed to me on a couple of oc

[OGD] V 7, #364 Tom Nelson

I have known Tom Nelson for quite a number of years. He spent many hours with me, learning how to properly handle, dig, and clean his salvaged Cypripediums especially. I have found him to be very concerned about the plants, and taking all the legal measures necessary to collect them. He, in

[OGD] OGD becoming useless

With all the name calling, character assasinations, and other bull s--t appearing on this list, it is fast becoming useless. Any more, I look at the contents and usually end up deleting the entire thing. Because of it, I may have missed something which may have really been useful. If the int

[OGD] Orchids Digest, Vol. 6, Issue 430, #5; Issue 431, #4

Peter, That is the point - there is NO SURE WAY of telling artificially propagated from wild collected, in flower or out, hybrid or species, let alone the legality of the parents or the initial collection! CITES has set up definitions which on paper sound fine, but are not realistic. CITES as

[OGD] Orchids Digest, Vol 6, Issue 427, Item 5

FOLLOW THE MONEY! IF THEY CAN'T TELL ARTIFICIALLY PROPAGATED MATERIAL FROM WILD COLLECTED THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN BUSINESS! "The kingdom's request for the exclusion of all artificially-bred orchid hybrids from CITES appendices last week sparked a heated debate among delegates from the European U

[OGD] Baiting, personal attacks, etc.

I think we all realize that Dr. Braem has a low tolerance for criticism. I also think that there are those that are more than happy to bait him into situations where he responds on a personal level. The last comment I sent to this list dealt with much the same topic. I likewise have a short fu

[OGD] Orchids Digest, Vol 6, Issue 306, Message 4

Peter's comments regarding what is missing is really missing the point. If it is legal to make the collections and offer them for sale, nothing else need to be said. Those questioning the legality of the collections are free to do so and if they are being illegally collected, appropriate autho

[OGD] Please, let's stop!

I just saw the latest ODG with the hate growing and I said to myself, this is not accomplishing anything. I asked some simple questions and have now gotten it embroiled in a big political uproar. Do I have to stop writing to the ODG? Can't questions be answered without this hateful, political

[OGD] Oops! My error!

I apologize for getting Norris Powell and George Norris mixed up in my posting. Indeed, Kay is correct! (OGD< V6, # 283, Mess. 2). My apologies to both and all! Carson E. Whitlow ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidg

[OGD] Kovach, Selby, Wait a Minute

I want to thank all of you that wrote me and ODG with your comments on the two issues I presented recently. They were not published here to get them going again, but as a different look at things. I was not condemning nor supporting anyone - the case happened to lend itself to some straightfow

[OGD] Homeland Security - Protection from Orchid Terrorism!

I found the article that Kay Barrett presented in V 6, 255, rather interesting, especially since "Mr. Jiminez commended the investigative efforts of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the Department of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection Service, and the Department of Agriculture.

[OGD] Wait a minute!

I was just reading the posting by Kay Barrett in Vol. 6, Issue 255, in which it stated that " According to the Indictment and statements in Court, Arias made several shipments of orchids to his co-conspirator, Norris, between January of 1999 and October of 2003. Arias would obtain a CITES permit

[OGD] A different twist on Phrag. kovachii

I am not an attorney, but something sort of bothers me and I would like a little input on it. A lot has been said about Phrag. kovachii, the man who brought it in and Selby Gardens. However, when we get right down to it, was it illegal, in regard to CITES? What plant was brought into the coun

[OGD] CITES stuff

Frederick, The first three words of CITES spells it out, and the first two don't count - "Convention (on) International Trade." Regarding native sites selling natural hybrids - that does not mean that the products they are selling came from the wild. A natural hybrid is one that occurs in the

[OGD] Excluding hybrids from CITES

Though I am in agreement with the removal of hybrids from CITES (all plants should be removed from CITES as far as I am concerned since it is a trade agreement not, a conservation measure), it is a start. The practical part of it though is that to have the plants determined as hybrids you must