howdy, any chance that getUserCount() this could be implemented for the basic UserManager class in the near future? I know it would probably be an expensive operation if the xml file had to be read in its entireity and then counted for users and all... /admin/UserManager/doCreateUser.jsp.java:72: Method getUserCount() not found in class com.evermind.sql.DataSourceUserManager. (JSP page line 30) usermanager.getUserCount() This does not appear to work with teh com.evermind.security.UserManager either. Barry "Blues is to jazz what yeast is to bread-without it, it’s flat." Carmen McRae